4 ms·

Yup… because their jobs may then go abroad as has been the trend for the past 20 years…

by azinman2 5y ago

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
An ultimately the company will suffer in quality, be bought by private equity and gutted in the next twenty years.
- RexM 5y ago
  Unfortunately, most companies aren't looking past the next few quarters.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
You can't ship pretty much any service industry job abroad.
- klipklop 5y ago
  That’s why they are working so hard on AI, drones and robots.
  - yardie 5y ago
    They are perpetually 3-5 years away. This is why there is a shortage now. We've told an entire generation not to take those jobs, they're going to be automated anyway. 2021 arrives and still no FSD trucks, no robotized fast food, and no last mile drone delivery. Not only did these companies convince investors labor wasn't necessary, they also managed to convince labor labor wasn't necessary.
willheis 5y ago
This happened to everything it could at least 10 years ago. It turns out that if you want software that works (at all), you need to pay people well, regardless of where they are in the world. Stop reenforcing this notion that leads to massive overwork and burnout in the US (+ Canada). Germany, the UK, Sweden, etc all have much, much better working conditions for software devs and their jobs aren't going away
- giantg2 5y ago
  I hear that many of the European countries have lower dev salaries than the US. So maybe better conditions, but possibly lower pay. Our company just started outsourcing IT 5 years ago. It's still expanding that policy.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    > I hear that many of the European countries have lower dev salaries than the US. So maybe better conditions, but possibly lower pay. While arguably true, it's almost definitely not better conditions to blame. A more likely source is the massive and relatively homogenous US market, a culture open to immigration, and the huge reserves of capital sloshing about the country.
    - skeeter2020 5y ago
      the significantly higher direct and indirect taxes are definitely related though
      - dukeyukey 5y ago
        You'd be surprised. Like, if we take taxes as a percentage of GDP as a figure, the US scores pretty well at about 27%. But Australia is at 28%, Canada at 32%, and even the UK at 33%. The differences aren't massive here. He'll, Ireland comes in at 23%.
        Manouchehri 5y ago
        My average personal income tax rate was well over 40% during my last year in Canada. (The marginal rate is/was 53.53%.) Even a high tax state like California would have a five figure amount less owed in taxes than Ontario at certain income levels.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Yeah, I'm not saying they are related. Just saying it can be a trade-off between higher pay and fewer hours and there are many variables to consider when comparing internationally.
yupper32 5y ago
If they could they would. I remember being told over 10 years ago as I was entering the field of software that I shouldn't bother: my job is going to be outsourced soon enough. This is just a scare tactic with little teeth. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen enough for it to be a consideration.
cultofmetatron 5y ago
Some of my best (ie: most profitable per hour jobs) were rescuing projects that were sent abroad.
- nickff 5y ago
  This seems like it could be survivor-ship bias; i.e. your highest margin jobs weren't those that had been sent abroad, they were the ones that failed after having been sent abroad.

Yup… because their jobs may then go abroad as has been the trend for the past 20 years…

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago

An ultimately the company will suffer in quality, be bought by private equity and gutted in the next twenty years.

RexM 5y ago
Unfortunately, most companies aren't looking past the next few quarters.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

You can't ship pretty much any service industry job abroad.

klipklop 5y ago
That’s why they are working so hard on AI, drones and robots.
- yardie 5y ago
  They are perpetually 3-5 years away. This is why there is a shortage now. We've told an entire generation not to take those jobs, they're going to be automated anyway. 2021 arrives and still no FSD trucks, no robotized fast food, and no last mile drone delivery. Not only did these companies convince investors labor wasn't necessary, they also managed to convince labor labor wasn't necessary.

willheis 5y ago

This happened to everything it could at least 10 years ago. It turns out that if you want software that works (at all), you need to pay people well, regardless of where they are in the world. Stop reenforcing this notion that leads to massive overwork and burnout in the US (+ Canada). Germany, the UK, Sweden, etc all have much, much better working conditions for software devs and their jobs aren't going away

giantg2 5y ago
I hear that many of the European countries have lower dev salaries than the US. So maybe better conditions, but possibly lower pay. Our company just started outsourcing IT 5 years ago. It's still expanding that policy.
- dukeyukey 5y ago
  > I hear that many of the European countries have lower dev salaries than the US. So maybe better conditions, but possibly lower pay. While arguably true, it's almost definitely not better conditions to blame. A more likely source is the massive and relatively homogenous US market, a culture open to immigration, and the huge reserves of capital sloshing about the country.
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    the significantly higher direct and indirect taxes are definitely related though
    - dukeyukey 5y ago
      You'd be surprised. Like, if we take taxes as a percentage of GDP as a figure, the US scores pretty well at about 27%. But Australia is at 28%, Canada at 32%, and even the UK at 33%. The differences aren't massive here. He'll, Ireland comes in at 23%.
      - Manouchehri 5y ago
        My average personal income tax rate was well over 40% during my last year in Canada. (The marginal rate is/was 53.53%.) Even a high tax state like California would have a five figure amount less owed in taxes than Ontario at certain income levels.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Yeah, I'm not saying they are related. Just saying it can be a trade-off between higher pay and fewer hours and there are many variables to consider when comparing internationally.

yupper32 5y ago

If they could they would. I remember being told over 10 years ago as I was entering the field of software that I shouldn't bother: my job is going to be outsourced soon enough. This is just a scare tactic with little teeth. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen enough for it to be a consideration.

cultofmetatron 5y ago

Some of my best (ie: most profitable per hour jobs) were rescuing projects that were sent abroad.

nickff 5y ago
This seems like it could be survivor-ship bias; i.e. your highest margin jobs weren't those that had been sent abroad, they were the ones that failed after having been sent abroad.