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This supports the view that any interview is really focused on finding a reason not to hire someone rather than finding reasons to hire them. Because if the can

This supports the view that any interview is really focused on finding a reason not to hire someone rather than finding reasons to hire them. Because if the candidate isn't already someone that could do the job then the company wouldn't be talking to them. I think I first read that view in the book "What Does Somebody Have to Do to Get a Job Around Here??" by Cynthia Shapiro. Some of the advice in that book is a bit dated but it does a good job of conveying the main challenges from both sides of the hiring process.

visarga 5y ago
> Because if the candidate isn't already someone that could do the job then the company wouldn't be talking to them. No, there are a huge number of unprepared applicants. Most are just a time waste, knowing just enough to get to the technical interviews without being able to pass them.
- oblio 5y ago
  The fact that you're expecting prepared candidates is a red flag on its own. As an experienced professional I shouldn't have to prepare for your interview except for maybe reading up on the company.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  It’s not my fault everyone wants to hear stuff during the interviews that has nothing to do with the job of programming. If you go asking me about bullshit you’ll get it.
pydry 5y ago
This happens when there is a glut of qualified candidates relative to demand - as there is for junior devs. The more qualified applicants for every job the more hiring criteria will become increasingly arbitrary and subject to the interviewers whims. I reckon this is where racism, sexism and other idiosyncratic personal biases also have the most room to flourish. Take home tests are popular when there is a glut because the time cost of assessing the candidate can be shifted to the interviewee.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  > This happens when there is a glut of qualified candidates relative to demand - as there is for junior devs. But, the process doesn't materially change when companies are looking for senior or mid-level developers, except that they then start adding system design rounds. Incidentally, I just had a thought: if there really is a glut of junior developers relative to demand, shouldn't that push down wages? It seems like there's some sort of market failure at work, but I'm not quite sure exactly what's causing it.
  - pydry 5y ago
    I doubt a senior developer would be shocked at being invited in for an interview after a phone call.
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      Okay, so you get to skip a phone screen or two before being invited to the hazing party. Big deal? That's what the word "materially" was there for.
      - drran 5y ago
        A’s Hire A’s, B’s Hire C’s. If you're really a senior developer, will you enjoy to work with C's? Try to actively «fire» the interviewer at the first minutes of interview by showing the darkest points of your CV upfront. If you succeed, you will save 6 hours of hazing and a few months of your life after that. I was in a team with inexperienced PM and few crooks, which negotiated 2x salary over mine, but had no skills. They hated programming, actually. I tried to help, but PM fired me instead. The project collapsed, so they started to blame me, damaging my reputation. It was an awful experience. For me, it's easy to recognize the technical level of somebody else, because I will just ask a high-level question and then see how the discussion goes. If they say «Okey, now tell me about your experience», then they are definitely not A's.
        5y ago
Clubber 5y ago
>This supports the view that any interview is really focused on finding a reason not to hire someone rather than finding reasons to hire them. I completely disagree with the current interview process as it existed for the last 20+ years. Last discussion I had I came to the conclusion that big tech companies created this process to not hire domestic workers so they can use H1-B visa workers, who are much easier to control under threat of deportation. H1-B was really big in the early 2000s which is when this process really started. There is a legal requirement to hire H1-B that a company must try to find a domestic worker but were unsuccessful. This style of interview process fits that requirement perfectly. The industry just happened to cargo cult it and here we are, massively employing an interview process designed not to hire people. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62-index-h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62-index-h1b Additional requirements for H-1B-dependent or willful violator employers with LCAs filed prior to October 1, 2003 and after March 7, 2005. No displacement of a similarly employed U.S. worker beginning 90 days before and ending 90 days after the filing of an H-1B visa petition; Recruitment of U.S. workers before seeking an H-1B worker. Offer employment to an equally or better qualified U.S. applicant for the job for which H-1B workers are sought (enforced by the Department of Justice).

visarga 5y ago

> Because if the candidate isn't already someone that could do the job then the company wouldn't be talking to them. No, there are a huge number of unprepared applicants. Most are just a time waste, knowing just enough to get to the technical interviews without being able to pass them.

oblio 5y ago
The fact that you're expecting prepared candidates is a red flag on its own. As an experienced professional I shouldn't have to prepare for your interview except for maybe reading up on the company.
Aeolun 5y ago
It’s not my fault everyone wants to hear stuff during the interviews that has nothing to do with the job of programming. If you go asking me about bullshit you’ll get it.

pydry 5y ago

This happens when there is a glut of qualified candidates relative to demand - as there is for junior devs. The more qualified applicants for every job the more hiring criteria will become increasingly arbitrary and subject to the interviewers whims. I reckon this is where racism, sexism and other idiosyncratic personal biases also have the most room to flourish. Take home tests are popular when there is a glut because the time cost of assessing the candidate can be shifted to the interviewee.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
> This happens when there is a glut of qualified candidates relative to demand - as there is for junior devs. But, the process doesn't materially change when companies are looking for senior or mid-level developers, except that they then start adding system design rounds. Incidentally, I just had a thought: if there really is a glut of junior developers relative to demand, shouldn't that push down wages? It seems like there's some sort of market failure at work, but I'm not quite sure exactly what's causing it.
- pydry 5y ago
  I doubt a senior developer would be shocked at being invited in for an interview after a phone call.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Okay, so you get to skip a phone screen or two before being invited to the hazing party. Big deal? That's what the word "materially" was there for.
    - drran 5y ago
      A’s Hire A’s, B’s Hire C’s. If you're really a senior developer, will you enjoy to work with C's? Try to actively «fire» the interviewer at the first minutes of interview by showing the darkest points of your CV upfront. If you succeed, you will save 6 hours of hazing and a few months of your life after that. I was in a team with inexperienced PM and few crooks, which negotiated 2x salary over mine, but had no skills. They hated programming, actually. I tried to help, but PM fired me instead. The project collapsed, so they started to blame me, damaging my reputation. It was an awful experience. For me, it's easy to recognize the technical level of somebody else, because I will just ask a high-level question and then see how the discussion goes. If they say «Okey, now tell me about your experience», then they are definitely not A's.
      - 5y ago

Clubber 5y ago

>This supports the view that any interview is really focused on finding a reason not to hire someone rather than finding reasons to hire them. I completely disagree with the current interview process as it existed for the last 20+ years. Last discussion I had I came to the conclusion that big tech companies created this process to not hire domestic workers so they can use H1-B visa workers, who are much easier to control under threat of deportation. H1-B was really big in the early 2000s which is when this process really started. There is a legal requirement to hire H1-B that a company must try to find a domestic worker but were unsuccessful. This style of interview process fits that requirement perfectly. The industry just happened to cargo cult it and here we are, massively employing an interview process designed not to hire people. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62-index-h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62-index-h1b Additional requirements for H-1B-dependent or willful violator employers with LCAs filed prior to October 1, 2003 and after March 7, 2005. No displacement of a similarly employed U.S. worker beginning 90 days before and ending 90 days after the filing of an H-1B visa petition; Recruitment of U.S. workers before seeking an H-1B worker. Offer employment to an equally or better qualified U.S. applicant for the job for which H-1B workers are sought (enforced by the Department of Justice).