7 ms·

How is this news? We've known for some time that the vaccines are leaky, and they appear to be working in regards to keeping the doctors out of the hospital and

by jdhn 5y ago

How is this news? We've known for some time that the vaccines are leaky, and they appear to be working in regards to keeping the doctors out of the hospital and only afflicted with mild symptoms.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
We've entered a culture fueled by indignation, where every apparent slight contradiction is waved like a flag and denounced as a conspiracy. Reality is nuanced. That's all been lost in public discourse. Because there's no thrill in that.
- taylodl 5y ago
  > Because there's no thrill in that No, it's because there's no political gain in that. This is a result of politicizing everything.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Not why the rank and file do it. It may be politically related, but most folks are just essentially trolling. It's become a national pastime
    - taylodl 5y ago
      Trolling as a national pastime - I think you're onto something!
officialjunk 5y ago
i agree with you, but i am having a lot of difficulty convincing most people i know that the current vaccines are leaky. i find most people still consider the current vaccines to neutralize the virus and they often begin to question why i don't understand how vaccines work...
PraetorianGourd 5y ago
Exactly. To be perfectly honest, if Omicron had 100% breakthrough rate but still was 95% effective at preventing severe disease and hospitalization, that is still amazing. In the developed world where vaccines are incredibly easy to obtain, we need to move on. Yes we need to protect the people who can’t receive a vaccine, and we need to help the world distribute the vaccine but we need to stop this constant state of emergency
ModernMech 5y ago
Yes, you see this as people point out that Gibraltar, a place that is supposedly 100% vaccinated, is experiencing an outbreak of 3000 cases since June. What they leave out is that 4 people have died in Gibraltar of Covid since that outbreak started. In January before vaccines were available, they had an earlier outbreak of 3000 cases. Close to 100 people died during that outbreak. This seems like a very obvious case study on the effectiveness of the vaccine, yet the vaccine skeptic analysis seems to stop at the cases and concludes that the vaccine is ineffective. When in reality, it's working fantastically well at preventing the most serious cases that lead to death.
- busymom0 5y ago
  > vaccine skeptic analysis seems to stop at the cases and concludes that the vaccine is ineffective This is not accurate. It's the mandates which most people have problems with, not the vaccine. Mandating something which doesn't prevent transmission under coercion from the government is illogical. The current shots are basically potential severe symptom mitigator - which if you think you would benefit, you should take it. It should not be mandated. Here in Canada: The Supreme Court of Canada has repeatedly recognized "the right of a patient to decide what, if anything, should be done with his body" and that no treatment can be given to a competent patient without their "voluntary informed consent." A treating doctor avoids liability for battery only with a valid and informed consent. The doctor must explain the risks and is legally and ethically obliged to treat within the confines of that consent. An aspect of the respect for human dignity is the right to make fundamental personal decisions without interference from the state. However, the same liability considerations do not apply to a patient's right to refuse treatment which is an inherent component of the supremacy of the patient's right over his own body. That right to refuse treatment is not premised on an understanding of the risks of refusal. A patient has the right to refuse treatment regardless of whether it is necessary to preserve their life or health. People must have the right to make choices that accord with their own values "regardless of how unwise or foolish those choices may appear to others". The right "to decide one’s own fate" includes the unqualified right to refuse life-saving medical treatment." Source for Canada SCC rulings on voluntary informed consent: https://canlii.ca/t/1ftjt https://canlii.ca/t/1ftjt https://canlii.ca/t/1mjv6 https://canlii.ca/t/1mjv6 https://canlii.ca/t/1p78q https://canlii.ca/t/1p78q https://canlii.ca/t/g1757 https://canlii.ca/t/g1757 https://canlii.ca/t/24432 https://canlii.ca/t/24432
chrisco255 5y ago
Because people are losing their jobs and liberty over perhaps the least effective vaccine in history.

by jdhn 5y ago

How is this news? We've known for some time that the vaccines are leaky, and they appear to be working in regards to keeping the doctors out of the hospital and only afflicted with mild symptoms.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

We've entered a culture fueled by indignation, where every apparent slight contradiction is waved like a flag and denounced as a conspiracy. Reality is nuanced. That's all been lost in public discourse. Because there's no thrill in that.

taylodl 5y ago
> Because there's no thrill in that No, it's because there's no political gain in that. This is a result of politicizing everything.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Not why the rank and file do it. It may be politically related, but most folks are just essentially trolling. It's become a national pastime
  - taylodl 5y ago
    Trolling as a national pastime - I think you're onto something!

officialjunk 5y ago

i agree with you, but i am having a lot of difficulty convincing most people i know that the current vaccines are leaky. i find most people still consider the current vaccines to neutralize the virus and they often begin to question why i don't understand how vaccines work...

PraetorianGourd 5y ago

Exactly. To be perfectly honest, if Omicron had 100% breakthrough rate but still was 95% effective at preventing severe disease and hospitalization, that is still amazing. In the developed world where vaccines are incredibly easy to obtain, we need to move on. Yes we need to protect the people who can’t receive a vaccine, and we need to help the world distribute the vaccine but we need to stop this constant state of emergency

ModernMech 5y ago

Yes, you see this as people point out that Gibraltar, a place that is supposedly 100% vaccinated, is experiencing an outbreak of 3000 cases since June. What they leave out is that 4 people have died in Gibraltar of Covid since that outbreak started. In January before vaccines were available, they had an earlier outbreak of 3000 cases. Close to 100 people died during that outbreak. This seems like a very obvious case study on the effectiveness of the vaccine, yet the vaccine skeptic analysis seems to stop at the cases and concludes that the vaccine is ineffective. When in reality, it's working fantastically well at preventing the most serious cases that lead to death.

busymom0 5y ago
> vaccine skeptic analysis seems to stop at the cases and concludes that the vaccine is ineffective This is not accurate. It's the mandates which most people have problems with, not the vaccine. Mandating something which doesn't prevent transmission under coercion from the government is illogical. The current shots are basically potential severe symptom mitigator - which if you think you would benefit, you should take it. It should not be mandated. Here in Canada: The Supreme Court of Canada has repeatedly recognized "the right of a patient to decide what, if anything, should be done with his body" and that no treatment can be given to a competent patient without their "voluntary informed consent." A treating doctor avoids liability for battery only with a valid and informed consent. The doctor must explain the risks and is legally and ethically obliged to treat within the confines of that consent. An aspect of the respect for human dignity is the right to make fundamental personal decisions without interference from the state. However, the same liability considerations do not apply to a patient's right to refuse treatment which is an inherent component of the supremacy of the patient's right over his own body. That right to refuse treatment is not premised on an understanding of the risks of refusal. A patient has the right to refuse treatment regardless of whether it is necessary to preserve their life or health. People must have the right to make choices that accord with their own values "regardless of how unwise or foolish those choices may appear to others". The right "to decide one’s own fate" includes the unqualified right to refuse life-saving medical treatment." Source for Canada SCC rulings on voluntary informed consent: https://canlii.ca/t/1ftjt https://canlii.ca/t/1ftjt https://canlii.ca/t/1mjv6 https://canlii.ca/t/1mjv6 https://canlii.ca/t/1p78q https://canlii.ca/t/1p78q https://canlii.ca/t/g1757 https://canlii.ca/t/g1757 https://canlii.ca/t/24432 https://canlii.ca/t/24432

chrisco255 5y ago

Because people are losing their jobs and liberty over perhaps the least effective vaccine in history.