7 ms·

So if you have something to hide, don't use iCloud backup. And Whatsapp will give them the target's full contactbook (was to be expected), but also everyone th

So if you have something to hide, don't use iCloud backup. And Whatsapp will give them the target's full contactbook (was to be expected), but also everyone that has the target in their contact list. That last one is quite far reaching.

lupire 5y ago
If you have something to hide, don't give a copy to any third-party. even a second-party is a risk.
sschueller 5y ago
Can you turn that off if you have icloud or do you need to not use icloud all together?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  You can turn it off individually just for Messages, but you're still left not knowing the state of the setting on the other end.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  Yes, and you can delete old backups on iCloud - and then switch to local, automatic, fully encrypted backups to a Mac or PC running iTunes. HN tends to get very frothy-at-the-mouth over Apple and privacy but the reality is that iPhones can be easily set up to offer security and privacy that best in class, they play well with self-hosted sync services like Nextcloud....and unlike the Android-based "privacy" distros you're not running an OS made by a bunch of random nameless people, you can use banking apps, etc. The only feature I miss is being able to control background data usage like Android does.
georgyo 5y ago
You and the person you are communicating with must both not use iCloud backup. And since apple pushes the backup features pretty heavily, you can be reasonable sure that the person you are communicating is using backups. IE, you cannot use iMessage.
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  I got off all Apple products when they showed me their privacy stance is little more than marketing during the CSAM fiasco, but IIRC the trouble with iCloud backup is it stores the private key used to encrypt your iMessages backup. Not ideal to be sure, but wouldn't iMessage users be well protected against dragnet surveillance, or do we know that they're decrypting these messages en masse and sharing them with state authorities?
  - novok 5y ago
    You wouldn't think most large states have hacked apple's icloud backup servers 20 times continuously at this point?
- vmception 5y ago
  iCloud backup can backup your whole phone, specifically the files section. iOS and OSX users can save anything to that.
fumar 5y ago
Has Apple made any public statements regarding iCloud's lack of privacy features. It takes the wind out of their privacy marketing that is effectively hurting ad tech but not truly protecting consumers from state-level actors with data access.
- amatecha 5y ago
  Kind of. These details are indeed publicly written on their website[0]. Do many users ever read this page? Probably not. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
  - fumar 5y ago
    Here is an excerpt. The language sounds like encryption is enabled and the chart includes iCloud features as server and in transit protected. Seems like smoke and mirrors then. > On each of your devices, the data that you store in iCloud and that's associated with your Apple ID is protected with a key derived from information unique to that device, combined with your device passcode which only you know. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information.
- nicce 5y ago
  E2EE was in the iOS 15 beta for backups but it was removed? (Did not land for release) after they changed the time table of CSAM scanning feature. So we will see if we get E2EE backups once that image scanning lands.
minerva23 5y ago
> if you have something to hide Most people don't realize that most people have something to hide. The USA has so many laws on its books. Many of which are outright bizarre[0] and some of which normal people might normally break[1]. And that's only counting current/past laws. It wasn't that long ago a US President was suggesting all Muslims should be forced to carry special IDs[2]. If you have a documented history being a Muslim, it could be harder to fight a non-compliance charge. [0] https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-a-law-where-you-can-t-put-ice-cream-in-your-pocket https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-a-law-where-you-can-t-put... [1] https://unusualkentucky.blogspot.com/2008/05/weird-kentucky-laws-bathing-suits-and.html?m=1 https://unusualkentucky.blogspot.com/2008/05/weird-kentucky-... [2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-muslims-id/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-muslims-id/
- president 5y ago
  Did you even read the snopes article you referenced before making what seems like a definitive claim about how Trump was suggesting muslims carry special IDs? Because Snope's own rating is "Mixture" of truth and false and if you read the assessment, it is grasping at straws to even make that conclusion.
  - kf6nux 5y ago
    Yes, "mixed" means you have to read the nuance. I think I accurately captured the reality. If you have a correction to offer, please do. EDIT: Ultimately, the nuance in that history is not relevant to the point that criminal law changes to include new categories in unexpected ways.
    - president 5y ago
      Sure, I can accept there is some nuance but the phrasing and definitive manner of your original statement is very misleading. I'm not the biggest fan of the guy but casually mentioning that he suggested the idea when in actuality it was an idea posed by a reporter is bad faith in my opinion.
- 5y ago

lupire 5y ago

If you have something to hide, don't give a copy to any third-party. even a second-party is a risk.

sschueller 5y ago

Can you turn that off if you have icloud or do you need to not use icloud all together?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ceejayoz 5y ago
You can turn it off individually just for Messages, but you're still left not knowing the state of the setting on the other end.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Yes, and you can delete old backups on iCloud - and then switch to local, automatic, fully encrypted backups to a Mac or PC running iTunes. HN tends to get very frothy-at-the-mouth over Apple and privacy but the reality is that iPhones can be easily set up to offer security and privacy that best in class, they play well with self-hosted sync services like Nextcloud....and unlike the Android-based "privacy" distros you're not running an OS made by a bunch of random nameless people, you can use banking apps, etc. The only feature I miss is being able to control background data usage like Android does.

georgyo 5y ago

You and the person you are communicating with must both not use iCloud backup. And since apple pushes the backup features pretty heavily, you can be reasonable sure that the person you are communicating is using backups. IE, you cannot use iMessage.

xanaxagoras 5y ago
I got off all Apple products when they showed me their privacy stance is little more than marketing during the CSAM fiasco, but IIRC the trouble with iCloud backup is it stores the private key used to encrypt your iMessages backup. Not ideal to be sure, but wouldn't iMessage users be well protected against dragnet surveillance, or do we know that they're decrypting these messages en masse and sharing them with state authorities?
- novok 5y ago
  You wouldn't think most large states have hacked apple's icloud backup servers 20 times continuously at this point?
vmception 5y ago
iCloud backup can backup your whole phone, specifically the files section. iOS and OSX users can save anything to that.

fumar 5y ago

Has Apple made any public statements regarding iCloud's lack of privacy features. It takes the wind out of their privacy marketing that is effectively hurting ad tech but not truly protecting consumers from state-level actors with data access.

amatecha 5y ago
Kind of. These details are indeed publicly written on their website[0]. Do many users ever read this page? Probably not. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
- fumar 5y ago
  Here is an excerpt. The language sounds like encryption is enabled and the chart includes iCloud features as server and in transit protected. Seems like smoke and mirrors then. > On each of your devices, the data that you store in iCloud and that's associated with your Apple ID is protected with a key derived from information unique to that device, combined with your device passcode which only you know. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information.
nicce 5y ago
E2EE was in the iOS 15 beta for backups but it was removed? (Did not land for release) after they changed the time table of CSAM scanning feature. So we will see if we get E2EE backups once that image scanning lands.

minerva23 5y ago

> if you have something to hide Most people don't realize that most people have something to hide. The USA has so many laws on its books. Many of which are outright bizarre[0] and some of which normal people might normally break[1]. And that's only counting current/past laws. It wasn't that long ago a US President was suggesting all Muslims should be forced to carry special IDs[2]. If you have a documented history being a Muslim, it could be harder to fight a non-compliance charge. [0] https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-a-law-where-you-can-t-put-ice-cream-in-your-pocket https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-a-law-where-you-can-t-put... [1] https://unusualkentucky.blogspot.com/2008/05/weird-kentucky-laws-bathing-suits-and.html?m=1 https://unusualkentucky.blogspot.com/2008/05/weird-kentucky-... [2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-muslims-id/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-muslims-id/

president 5y ago
Did you even read the snopes article you referenced before making what seems like a definitive claim about how Trump was suggesting muslims carry special IDs? Because Snope's own rating is "Mixture" of truth and false and if you read the assessment, it is grasping at straws to even make that conclusion.
- kf6nux 5y ago
  Yes, "mixed" means you have to read the nuance. I think I accurately captured the reality. If you have a correction to offer, please do. EDIT: Ultimately, the nuance in that history is not relevant to the point that criminal law changes to include new categories in unexpected ways.
  - president 5y ago
    Sure, I can accept there is some nuance but the phrasing and definitive manner of your original statement is very misleading. I'm not the biggest fan of the guy but casually mentioning that he suggested the idea when in actuality it was an idea posed by a reporter is bad faith in my opinion.
5y ago