4 ms·

How do we stop this cycle where it's a (well-deserved) reluctant goodbye every time a company we like seeks to go public and IPO? It's like the writing's on the

by 0des 5y ago

How do we stop this cycle where it's a (well-deserved) reluctant goodbye every time a company we like seeks to go public and IPO? It's like the writing's on the wall and we already know what's going to happen.. We're in a segment of time where companies are so over-valued by VC that when they go public they have no choice but to engage in egregious practices to maintain the stock price. It often alienates the customers/users/supporters that got them there. Is this the inevitable outcome in all cases or is this a symptom of a flaw in our model?

devmor 5y ago
>It's like the writing's on the wall and we already know what's going to happen.. Because it is, and you explained exactly why: >We're in a segment of time where companies are so over-valued by VC that when they go public they have no choice but to engage in egregious practices to maintain the stock price. It often alienates the customers/users/supporters that got them there.
notreallyserio 5y ago
It's the inevitable outcome of enough cases that we should celebrate those that don't take this route. I'm thinking of orgs like Debian here, but there are many others for whom profit is not a or the sole motivator.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  Some business person probably read this post and thought "Hmm, Debian ...".
brighton36 5y ago
Imo, it's a flaw in our model. If 'fighting them' failed, then, we should join them. Here, that would mean participation in the ipo, in the style of gamestop. Push the p/e ratio to something completely absurd. Maybe it'll fail as a result. (Thus begetting a libre office, response to an open office initiative.)
- 0des 5y ago
  Hello, I think your account's ability to post and be seen is being interfered with, as all your comments are greyed as soon as you post, and I had to 'vouch' for this post in order to reply, thought you should know, because this was an otherwise insightful comment.
  - brighton36 5y ago
    Lol, thank you very much for telling me. I find that I get shadow banned and outright banned on every social media site and forum. I genuinely don't understand why. It's usually for comments such as this one. (Shrug)
beckman466 5y ago
> How do we stop this cycle where it's a (well-deserved) reluctant goodbye every time a company we like seeks to go public and IPO? venture communism instead of venture capitalism? peer-to-peer communism instead of the client server state? http://media.telekommunisten.net/manifesto.pdf http://media.telekommunisten.net/manifesto.pdf
- 0des 5y ago
  While I respect your willingness to think outside of the box, and am thankful for your reply, I am old enough to remember that communism is not something I personally desire.
  - Sunspark 5y ago
    Pure communism as conceived in theory is not the same thing as the Soviet and Chinese applications which are really authoritarianism.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      Unfortunately theory once it hits reality is often found to be untenable. The aggregation of power into some kind of central authority system for the good of the people always ends up bad for the people.
      - hnaccount141 5y ago
        > The aggregation of power into some kind of central authority system for the good of the people always ends up bad for the people. You will find that this sentiment is quite popular among communists these days. The idea of achieving a classless, stateless society via the use of a central state is inherently contradictory. (Though that's not to say that the alternatives are necessarily more realistic)
diveanon 5y ago
Aka capitalism. We know it sucks, but gotta get yours while you can right?
phkahler 5y ago
>> Is this the inevitable outcome in all cases or is this a symptom of a flaw in our model? The problem seems to be that "investment" these days is all about selling to someone else at a higher price. Stock performance has decoupled from company value but people still try to "meet expectations" anyway. One driver is low interest rates. Another is the 401k plans in the US where every middle-class employee is systematically pushing money into the market. this provides an ultimate sucker for every VC to sell to since the end-game is to IPO at astronomical valuations.
aaronax 5y ago
How about Cooperative business models? Tech industry examples: NISC, makes software for electric and telecom cooperatives (disclosure, I am a new employee here) Tessitura, makes software for event ticket sales
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Can't float the idea of worker cooperatives without tossing Mondragón[1] into the mix! 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
jareklupinski 5y ago
if we all organized, we could probably collectively own more stock than any single shareholder or just buy any amount of stock, and be a normal shareholder - go to the meetings and make your voice heard? if enough of us even owned the minimum 1 share, the foundation / company would be in a better place

by 0des 5y ago

devmor 5y ago

>It's like the writing's on the wall and we already know what's going to happen.. Because it is, and you explained exactly why: >We're in a segment of time where companies are so over-valued by VC that when they go public they have no choice but to engage in egregious practices to maintain the stock price. It often alienates the customers/users/supporters that got them there.

notreallyserio 5y ago

It's the inevitable outcome of enough cases that we should celebrate those that don't take this route. I'm thinking of orgs like Debian here, but there are many others for whom profit is not a or the sole motivator.

solarkraft 5y ago
Some business person probably read this post and thought "Hmm, Debian ...".

brighton36 5y ago

Imo, it's a flaw in our model. If 'fighting them' failed, then, we should join them. Here, that would mean participation in the ipo, in the style of gamestop. Push the p/e ratio to something completely absurd. Maybe it'll fail as a result. (Thus begetting a libre office, response to an open office initiative.)

0des 5y ago
Hello, I think your account's ability to post and be seen is being interfered with, as all your comments are greyed as soon as you post, and I had to 'vouch' for this post in order to reply, thought you should know, because this was an otherwise insightful comment.
- brighton36 5y ago
  Lol, thank you very much for telling me. I find that I get shadow banned and outright banned on every social media site and forum. I genuinely don't understand why. It's usually for comments such as this one. (Shrug)

beckman466 5y ago

> How do we stop this cycle where it's a (well-deserved) reluctant goodbye every time a company we like seeks to go public and IPO? venture communism instead of venture capitalism? peer-to-peer communism instead of the client server state? http://media.telekommunisten.net/manifesto.pdf http://media.telekommunisten.net/manifesto.pdf

0des 5y ago
While I respect your willingness to think outside of the box, and am thankful for your reply, I am old enough to remember that communism is not something I personally desire.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  Pure communism as conceived in theory is not the same thing as the Soviet and Chinese applications which are really authoritarianism.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    Unfortunately theory once it hits reality is often found to be untenable. The aggregation of power into some kind of central authority system for the good of the people always ends up bad for the people.
    - hnaccount141 5y ago
      > The aggregation of power into some kind of central authority system for the good of the people always ends up bad for the people. You will find that this sentiment is quite popular among communists these days. The idea of achieving a classless, stateless society via the use of a central state is inherently contradictory. (Though that's not to say that the alternatives are necessarily more realistic)

diveanon 5y ago

Aka capitalism. We know it sucks, but gotta get yours while you can right?

phkahler 5y ago

>> Is this the inevitable outcome in all cases or is this a symptom of a flaw in our model? The problem seems to be that "investment" these days is all about selling to someone else at a higher price. Stock performance has decoupled from company value but people still try to "meet expectations" anyway. One driver is low interest rates. Another is the 401k plans in the US where every middle-class employee is systematically pushing money into the market. this provides an ultimate sucker for every VC to sell to since the end-game is to IPO at astronomical valuations.

aaronax 5y ago

How about Cooperative business models? Tech industry examples: NISC, makes software for electric and telecom cooperatives (disclosure, I am a new employee here) Tessitura, makes software for event ticket sales

blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Can't float the idea of worker cooperatives without tossing Mondragón[1] into the mix! 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

jareklupinski 5y ago

if we all organized, we could probably collectively own more stock than any single shareholder or just buy any amount of stock, and be a normal shareholder - go to the meetings and make your voice heard? if enough of us even owned the minimum 1 share, the foundation / company would be in a better place