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I'll ignore your partisan bile and address your salient point (Yes, regulations do have costs. Sorry.). My friend's startup was offering health insurance withi

I'll ignore your partisan bile and address your salient point (Yes, regulations do have costs. Sorry.). My friend's startup was offering health insurance within 6 months after it was initially incorporated. Most of the founders had some sort of individual plan or COBRA before then. Are you telling me that there are many people out there resourceful enough to be successful entrepreneurs but not resourceful enough to cover that gap? Count me among the skeptical of the idea that government health care will unlock a torrent of entrepreneurial energy. If government support is necessary for entrepreneurs, why isn't Silicon Valley located in old Europe? I have to admit that the idea that government provided health care is necessary for entrepreneurship has been a successful meme. I see it repeated everywhere even though I haven't heard a convincing case for it. You gotta admire the persistence and message discipline if nothing else.

sologoub 15y ago
I agree with your sentiment about resourcefulness, but I'd probably also say that the spirit of the article is that government should do all it can to lower the barrier to entry and thereby promote more competition. One other item I found annoying is the bit about premium paid for expedited patent applications - this will simply not work because the current tech giants will simply flood the system with expedited patents and the government will be able to collect more revenue, while those who cannot afford the expedited fees will be stuck waiting even longer.
ap22213 15y ago
partisan bile? Sounds more like the poster is an independent who's tired of Big-C vs. Big-L politics and really wants pragmatic change, not partisan line-toeing. Look, I don't know what age you are, but health care at upper-30s is no easy street, and from what I hear, it gets much, much worse. Just in the past year, I dropped 10K on health care expenses, and that is _with_ fantastic insurance. Edit: and, seriously - I'm no slouch. I'm an extremely healthy upper-30s guy who runs, weight-trains, eats like godliness. I'm guessing the audience of HN is probably lower-middle 20s. Well, trust me, health problems still creep up (on some of us), even with uber lifestyle.
- anamax 15y ago
  > Look, I don't know what age you are, but health care at upper-30s is no easy street, and from what I hear, it gets much, much worse. I'm "low 50s" and a fairly premium plan didn't cost me much. > Just in the past year, I dropped 10K on health care expenses, and that is _with_ fantastic insurance. Wowswers. However, if that's expected costs, that's an argument for not subsidizing you. And, if it's unexpected costs, that's an argument for catastrophic health insurance, not ordinary health insurance, which is little more than pre-paid expenses.
  - ap22213 15y ago
    Yes - I see your point. Ok - A sizable portion of the 10K happened between jobs. Another large chunk was dental. So, I'm packing a lot into that number that I probably shouldn't. And, I apologize for that. I guess I'm just bitter about it. Healthcare has personally burned me, and I find it a personal distraction and barrier. But, I need to recuse myself from healthcare discussions.
    - anamax 15y ago
      > A sizable portion of the 10K happened between jobs. Huh? You started with > Just in the past year, I dropped 10K on health care expenses, and that is _with_ fantastic insurance. Are you now saying that the 10k was dominated by dental (which isn't covered by health insurance) and expenses when you weren't covered by "fantastic insurance" because you went bare? And that's somehow the fault of the health insurance system? > I find [healthcare] a personal distraction and barrier. No doubt, but the solution seems to be under your control. There are lots of things that we could do to improve the healthcare system, but we're not going to get them by making up stories.
- timr 15y ago
  "partisan bile? Sounds more like the poster is an independent who's tired of Big-C vs. Big-L politics and really wants pragmatic change, not partisan line-toeing." I think I'm an independent, but it's probably objectively possible to look at my position here, and claim that I'm siding with the Democrats. So be it: if the Democrats want single-payer health care, then I'm on their side, and I guess it makes me "partisan" in the eyes of people who disagree. There's nothing inherently wrong with being partisan -- the problem comes when people are partisan without reasons beyond party affiliation. Demonizing "partisanship" is a rhetorical trick that dresses up ad hominem attacks as legitimate debate.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
timr 15y ago
"Are you telling me that there are many people out there resourceful enough to be successful entrepreneurs but not resourceful enough to cover that gap?" Yes. Because it's clearly not an all-or-nothing question. When I started at Justin.tv, I had a six-ish month gap where I had to get private coverage, and it was a total disaster: they found so many reasons to over-charge and under-deliver for care that it was essentially useless. I had no faith that I would be covered in the event of an emergency. A serious accident at that point in my life probably would have bankrupted me, lost my job, and given me no ability to recover from the loss. If I had a family to insure, I never would have worked for Justin.tv. So tell me again how it's not a source of friction for startups. I have female friends who literally cannot get private coverage, because they have a uterus, and the usual problems associated therewith. I have other friends who have families, and can't afford the private coverage premium (which is much higher than group rates). All of these people are bright, young, hard-working -- candidate entrepreneurs, all -- and chained to a job so that they can get health care. Is government support necessary for entrepreneurs? No, of course not. But if we're going to propose useless things (like, say...eliminating the capital gains tax), we might as well put some scrutiny on legitimate entrepreneurial problems as well.

sologoub 15y ago

I agree with your sentiment about resourcefulness, but I'd probably also say that the spirit of the article is that government should do all it can to lower the barrier to entry and thereby promote more competition. One other item I found annoying is the bit about premium paid for expedited patent applications - this will simply not work because the current tech giants will simply flood the system with expedited patents and the government will be able to collect more revenue, while those who cannot afford the expedited fees will be stuck waiting even longer.

ap22213 15y ago

partisan bile? Sounds more like the poster is an independent who's tired of Big-C vs. Big-L politics and really wants pragmatic change, not partisan line-toeing. Look, I don't know what age you are, but health care at upper-30s is no easy street, and from what I hear, it gets much, much worse. Just in the past year, I dropped 10K on health care expenses, and that is _with_ fantastic insurance. Edit: and, seriously - I'm no slouch. I'm an extremely healthy upper-30s guy who runs, weight-trains, eats like godliness. I'm guessing the audience of HN is probably lower-middle 20s. Well, trust me, health problems still creep up (on some of us), even with uber lifestyle.

anamax 15y ago
> Look, I don't know what age you are, but health care at upper-30s is no easy street, and from what I hear, it gets much, much worse. I'm "low 50s" and a fairly premium plan didn't cost me much. > Just in the past year, I dropped 10K on health care expenses, and that is _with_ fantastic insurance. Wowswers. However, if that's expected costs, that's an argument for not subsidizing you. And, if it's unexpected costs, that's an argument for catastrophic health insurance, not ordinary health insurance, which is little more than pre-paid expenses.
- ap22213 15y ago
  Yes - I see your point. Ok - A sizable portion of the 10K happened between jobs. Another large chunk was dental. So, I'm packing a lot into that number that I probably shouldn't. And, I apologize for that. I guess I'm just bitter about it. Healthcare has personally burned me, and I find it a personal distraction and barrier. But, I need to recuse myself from healthcare discussions.
  - anamax 15y ago
    > A sizable portion of the 10K happened between jobs. Huh? You started with > Just in the past year, I dropped 10K on health care expenses, and that is _with_ fantastic insurance. Are you now saying that the 10k was dominated by dental (which isn't covered by health insurance) and expenses when you weren't covered by "fantastic insurance" because you went bare? And that's somehow the fault of the health insurance system? > I find [healthcare] a personal distraction and barrier. No doubt, but the solution seems to be under your control. There are lots of things that we could do to improve the healthcare system, but we're not going to get them by making up stories.
timr 15y ago
"partisan bile? Sounds more like the poster is an independent who's tired of Big-C vs. Big-L politics and really wants pragmatic change, not partisan line-toeing." I think I'm an independent, but it's probably objectively possible to look at my position here, and claim that I'm siding with the Democrats. So be it: if the Democrats want single-payer health care, then I'm on their side, and I guess it makes me "partisan" in the eyes of people who disagree. There's nothing inherently wrong with being partisan -- the problem comes when people are partisan without reasons beyond party affiliation. Demonizing "partisanship" is a rhetorical trick that dresses up ad hominem attacks as legitimate debate.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

timr 15y ago

"Are you telling me that there are many people out there resourceful enough to be successful entrepreneurs but not resourceful enough to cover that gap?" Yes. Because it's clearly not an all-or-nothing question. When I started at Justin.tv, I had a six-ish month gap where I had to get private coverage, and it was a total disaster: they found so many reasons to over-charge and under-deliver for care that it was essentially useless. I had no faith that I would be covered in the event of an emergency. A serious accident at that point in my life probably would have bankrupted me, lost my job, and given me no ability to recover from the loss. If I had a family to insure, I never would have worked for Justin.tv. So tell me again how it's not a source of friction for startups. I have female friends who literally cannot get private coverage, because they have a uterus, and the usual problems associated therewith. I have other friends who have families, and can't afford the private coverage premium (which is much higher than group rates). All of these people are bright, young, hard-working -- candidate entrepreneurs, all -- and chained to a job so that they can get health care. Is government support necessary for entrepreneurs? No, of course not. But if we're going to propose useless things (like, say...eliminating the capital gains tax), we might as well put some scrutiny on legitimate entrepreneurial problems as well.