5 ms·

Which U.S. bans are you talking about? Is there anywhere I can read more about this?

grawlinson 5y ago
It'll probably be something like this[0] and this[1]. I think there are more export restrictions than these two examples. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th... [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/tech/smic-us-sanctions-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/tech/smic-us-sanctions-in...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bee_rider 5y ago
We occasionally ban companies that make HPC parts (Intel, NVIDIA, AMD) from selling to Chinese research centers, generally citing concerns that they could be used for weapons R&D (nuclear weapons simulation for example). 2015: https://spectrum.ieee.org/us-blacklisting-of-chinas-supercomputers-may-backfire https://spectrum.ieee.org/us-blacklisting-of-chinas-supercom... 2019: https://www.yahoo.com/now/trump-bans-more-chinese-tech-211409562.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/trump-bans-more-chinese-tech-21140... 2021: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/u-s-adds-seven-chinese-supercomputing-firms-to-export-ban-list https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/u-s-adds-...
- monocasa 5y ago
  And then made it's own domestic supercomputing cluster that topped the charts when it came online.
  - cyounkins 5y ago
    I hadn't heard about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunway_TaihuLight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunway_TaihuLight
  - jpgvm 5y ago
    Yeah. People forget that capital allocation works differently in China. You ban something they want, they simply make it themselves. I think banning their access to EUV lithography via the export ban of ASML machines is going to backfire horribly on the US. China has started allocating absolutely ridiculous amounts of money to hard science and have also changed the way they fund and prioritize projects to make them more commercially targeted. The end result of this is they now have a very large number of very smart scientists with nearly infinite funding being told to solve for the rest of the fab pipeline. ASML might retain their monopoly for a few more years but I think this move will eventually result in Chinese building even better machines and likely more practical and for less money - as is the Chinese way.
    - sitkack 5y ago
      I think the bans are strategic in that we need a capable foe. By banning the right things, it ensures that they are at parity with us. A smart colonial power doesn't cut off access 100% but rations and controls access to resources. I can't wait to buy a refrigerator sized fab on alibaba for 25k in five years.
    - phkahler 5y ago
      >> ASML might retain their monopoly for a few more years but I think this move will eventually result in Chinese building even better machines and likely more practical and for less money - as is the Chinese way. The complexity of ASML EUV light sources is incredible. China might just use a synchrotron for that. Sure there are issues to resolve but it seems like it has to be simpler in the end.
  - hajile 5y ago
    Those cores are 28nm and I believe they were made on TSMC. Today, the manufacture ban has China still on 28 or maybe 22nm as their most advanced node. They had some old 14nm stuff, but last I heard, the guys that owned it greatly over-promised to the Chinese Government. China has no modern fabrication processes and no way forward toward designing one. At present, they are headed to a state of perpetually being 5 node (one decade) behind.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Latest Sunway OceanLight perf indicates they use better process like at least around 7nm rather than 28nm. https://www.hpcwire.com/2021/11/24/three-chinese-exascale-systems-detailed-at-sc21-two-operational-and-one-delayed/ https://www.hpcwire.com/2021/11/24/three-chinese-exascale-sy...
- lincpa 5y ago
  And then made it's own computer architecture, Its mathematical prototype is the simple, classic, vivid, and widely used in social production practice, elementary school mathematics "water inflow/outflow of the pool". My theory rebuilt the theoretical foundation of the IT industry, It makes the computer theory system fully & perfectly related to mathematics in a simple and unified way: from hardware integrated circuits and computer architecture, to software programming methodology, architecture, programming language and so on. It solve the most fundamental and core major problems in the IT industry: The foundation and core of the IT theory lack mathematical support. It will surely replace the "von Neumann architecture" and become the first architecture in the computer field, and it is the first architecture to achieve a unified software and hardware. Because "von Neumann architecture" lacks mathematical model support, it is impossible to prove its scientificity. It has a wide range of applications, from SOC to supercomputer, from software to hardware, from stand-alone to network, from application layer to system layer, from single thread to distributed & heterogeneous parallel computing, from general programming to explainable AI, from manufacturing industry to IT industry, from energy to finance, from cash flow to medical angiography, from myth to Transformers, from the missile's "Fire-and-Forget" technology to Boeing aircraft pulse production line technology. The Math-based Grand Unified Programming Theory: The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow with Principle-based Warehouse/Workshop Model https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow

It'll probably be something like this[0] and this[1]. I think there are more export restrictions than these two examples. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th... [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/tech/smic-us-sanctions-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/tech/smic-us-sanctions-in...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bee_rider 5y ago

We occasionally ban companies that make HPC parts (Intel, NVIDIA, AMD) from selling to Chinese research centers, generally citing concerns that they could be used for weapons R&D (nuclear weapons simulation for example). 2015: https://spectrum.ieee.org/us-blacklisting-of-chinas-supercomputers-may-backfire https://spectrum.ieee.org/us-blacklisting-of-chinas-supercom... 2019: https://www.yahoo.com/now/trump-bans-more-chinese-tech-211409562.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/trump-bans-more-chinese-tech-21140... 2021: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/u-s-adds-seven-chinese-supercomputing-firms-to-export-ban-list https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/u-s-adds-...

monocasa 5y ago
And then made it's own domestic supercomputing cluster that topped the charts when it came online.
- cyounkins 5y ago
  I hadn't heard about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunway_TaihuLight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunway_TaihuLight
- jpgvm 5y ago
  Yeah. People forget that capital allocation works differently in China. You ban something they want, they simply make it themselves. I think banning their access to EUV lithography via the export ban of ASML machines is going to backfire horribly on the US. China has started allocating absolutely ridiculous amounts of money to hard science and have also changed the way they fund and prioritize projects to make them more commercially targeted. The end result of this is they now have a very large number of very smart scientists with nearly infinite funding being told to solve for the rest of the fab pipeline. ASML might retain their monopoly for a few more years but I think this move will eventually result in Chinese building even better machines and likely more practical and for less money - as is the Chinese way.
  - sitkack 5y ago
    I think the bans are strategic in that we need a capable foe. By banning the right things, it ensures that they are at parity with us. A smart colonial power doesn't cut off access 100% but rations and controls access to resources. I can't wait to buy a refrigerator sized fab on alibaba for 25k in five years.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    >> ASML might retain their monopoly for a few more years but I think this move will eventually result in Chinese building even better machines and likely more practical and for less money - as is the Chinese way. The complexity of ASML EUV light sources is incredible. China might just use a synchrotron for that. Sure there are issues to resolve but it seems like it has to be simpler in the end.
- hajile 5y ago
  Those cores are 28nm and I believe they were made on TSMC. Today, the manufacture ban has China still on 28 or maybe 22nm as their most advanced node. They had some old 14nm stuff, but last I heard, the guys that owned it greatly over-promised to the Chinese Government. China has no modern fabrication processes and no way forward toward designing one. At present, they are headed to a state of perpetually being 5 node (one decade) behind.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Latest Sunway OceanLight perf indicates they use better process like at least around 7nm rather than 28nm. https://www.hpcwire.com/2021/11/24/three-chinese-exascale-systems-detailed-at-sc21-two-operational-and-one-delayed/ https://www.hpcwire.com/2021/11/24/three-chinese-exascale-sy...
lincpa 5y ago
And then made it's own computer architecture, Its mathematical prototype is the simple, classic, vivid, and widely used in social production practice, elementary school mathematics "water inflow/outflow of the pool". My theory rebuilt the theoretical foundation of the IT industry, It makes the computer theory system fully & perfectly related to mathematics in a simple and unified way: from hardware integrated circuits and computer architecture, to software programming methodology, architecture, programming language and so on. It solve the most fundamental and core major problems in the IT industry: The foundation and core of the IT theory lack mathematical support. It will surely replace the "von Neumann architecture" and become the first architecture in the computer field, and it is the first architecture to achieve a unified software and hardware. Because "von Neumann architecture" lacks mathematical model support, it is impossible to prove its scientificity. It has a wide range of applications, from SOC to supercomputer, from software to hardware, from stand-alone to network, from application layer to system layer, from single thread to distributed & heterogeneous parallel computing, from general programming to explainable AI, from manufacturing industry to IT industry, from energy to finance, from cash flow to medical angiography, from myth to Transformers, from the missile's "Fire-and-Forget" technology to Boeing aircraft pulse production line technology. The Math-based Grand Unified Programming Theory: The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow with Principle-based Warehouse/Workshop Model https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow