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Satellites Reveal Arctic Rivers are Changing Faster Than We Thought

60 points by infodocket 5y ago

gennarro 5y ago
https://ofr.report/pi/2021-26057/ https://ofr.report/pi/2021-26057/ Fisheries of the Exclusive Economic Zone Off Alaska: Atka Mackerel in the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands Management Area Pertinent, recent legislation.
hanniabu 5y ago
The good news just keeps coming!
dontcare007 5y ago
Meanwhile, Artic ice froze earlier, trapping 8(edit: 24) ships, and Antarctic ice is predicted to be at a record thickness...
spodek 5y ago
The only thing changing slower than expected is humans. We resist stopping digging and burning fossil fuels. One thing we know reduces emissions and pollution: stop digging and burning fossil fuels. We're using every excuse not to. Everyone has their thing they want to do that delays capping the wells and closing the mines. Beyond overconsumption, we can't even talk about overpopulation without losing our shit (though a few people and nations have made great progress, see Mechai Viravaidya, for example).
- mistrial9 5y ago
  watch Elon Musk respond to this question on a panel talk, in front of Oil executives, in Norway .. master class in diplomacy.. hint "just stop" is not a winning position, no matter what outcome you favor
  - orthecreedence 5y ago
    Yes, our beautiful little system we've constructed is starting to feel more and more like a ball and chain. We can't bother doing what's in everyone's best interest because it also happens to be in nobody's individual interest. Quite a predicament.
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    > hint "just stop" is not a winning position It is the ONLY winning position. (almost) Every part of the world talks incessantly about it or around it rather than actually taking the position. Saying "just stop" is only the first step and if you can't take that, you haven't realized that every other position is a losing position. The trick is that it's a worse and worse position each day. Saying "just stop" isn't supposed to win immediately against those who will fight you regardless of what you say. It's to show you're willing to take off the steering wheel in a head to head. Ofc, you don't want to say it when you don't mean it. I'm convinced that parts of the world, thirsty for water (and other resources) will go to war and it still will not stop. The hand wringing and peace making is unsurprising business as usual.
  - spodek 5y ago
    Elon Musk is today's Robert Moses. People associate him with helping the environment, but he's pushing for growth as his top-line strategy. He may lower emissions from tailpipes, but systemically, he's exacerbating the problems.
  - jquery 5y ago
    Elon? Is that the guy who moved to Texas to dodge taxes and regulations? Who’s expanding industry in one of the states with the least environmentally friendly laws in the nation? You know, a state where rolling coal is considered a pastime? Yeah no thanks. I sold my Tesla shares after he took a cheap shot at Bernie Sanders (funny how he never took a shot at Donald Trump, weird huh)…
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I’m guessing if Trump took a shot at him, he’d have quipped back, just as he did to Bernie.
      - jquery 5y ago
        Bernie didn’t take a shot at him, at least not directly. Nothing deserving a snarky reply.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  Might makes right. You can't "just stop" unless everyone does. But if there exists any competitive advantage to cheat and not stop, then those who do will become more powerful than those who don't. There definitely exists a competitive advantage to burn cheap fossil fuels since we get to externalize and socialize the negative consequences on everyone while privatizing the gains when we do. All hail Moloch, https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
8bitsrule 5y ago
Always good to be entertained while we court disaster.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  Makes me wondering if this will be the first civilization collapse that a large number of people saw coming decades ahead of time. That'd be interesting.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  Is it impossible for folks to imagine that some local biomes might gain biodiversity as a result of climate change? Alaska might be one of those places. Perhaps Siberia as well.
  - wumpus 5y ago
    Sure, once Antarctica heats up, it'll gain a ton of biodiversity.
  - redisman 5y ago
    Don’t forget milder weather also supports invasive species like tree boring beetles
aero-glide2 5y ago
There are many "faster than we thought" headlines for Climate change. What about "slower than we thought"? Do such studies not exist?
- jquery 5y ago
  What’s the point of a comment like this?
  - omginternets 5y ago
    I think he’s just pointing out that many of the doomsday scenarios predicted in the past have revealed themselves to be damp squibs. Without denying the existence of climate change, it’s true that exaggerated claims have become the norm (and arguably harmed the credibility of ecologists).
    - mrow84 5y ago
      > it’s true that exaggerated claims have become the norm This is a very strong claim, and it is incumbent on you to provide evidence - for example, has there been a notable increase in retractions of scientific work in the fields you mention?
      - omginternets 5y ago
        Remember all the talk about El Niño in the early 00’s and how it’s disappearance would signal tangible catastrophe? How about the hole in the ozone layer? To nambw but a few
        jquery 5y ago
        We took action on the ozone layer. El Niño is important is it not?
        vkou 5y ago
        A weakened El Nino just contributed to an unparalleled rainstrom in British Columbia, cutting off ~3 million people from the rest of the country for a week[1], causing logistics failures that are expected to take months to resolve, killing tens of thousands of livestock, and was hours away from causing the Fraser river to flood the City of Abbotsford, which would have put half of it, and a large stretch of Highway 1 under 10 feet of water - which would have taken years to dam and drain. The province has since been in a state of emergency, banning non-essential highway travel. The Coquihalla highway, the primary lifeline into the rest of Canada won't even re-open for essential traffic until the end of January - and full repairs will take far longer. [1] The city of Chilliwack (pop ~100,000) was completely cut off from all supply routes for more than a week. No road access. No rail access. It has no airport of note. No food at the groceries, no prescriptions at the pharmacy, no food for the tens of thousands of livestock raised by its farmers. Right now, there's only one way into it (from Vancouver), and it is still being intermittently cut off by flooding.

60 points by infodocket 5y ago

https://ofr.report/pi/2021-26057/ https://ofr.report/pi/2021-26057/ Fisheries of the Exclusive Economic Zone Off Alaska: Atka Mackerel in the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands Management Area Pertinent, recent legislation.

hanniabu 5y ago

The good news just keeps coming!

dontcare007 5y ago

Meanwhile, Artic ice froze earlier, trapping 8(edit: 24) ships, and Antarctic ice is predicted to be at a record thickness...

spodek 5y ago

The only thing changing slower than expected is humans. We resist stopping digging and burning fossil fuels. One thing we know reduces emissions and pollution: stop digging and burning fossil fuels. We're using every excuse not to. Everyone has their thing they want to do that delays capping the wells and closing the mines. Beyond overconsumption, we can't even talk about overpopulation without losing our shit (though a few people and nations have made great progress, see Mechai Viravaidya, for example).

mistrial9 5y ago
watch Elon Musk respond to this question on a panel talk, in front of Oil executives, in Norway .. master class in diplomacy.. hint "just stop" is not a winning position, no matter what outcome you favor
- orthecreedence 5y ago
  Yes, our beautiful little system we've constructed is starting to feel more and more like a ball and chain. We can't bother doing what's in everyone's best interest because it also happens to be in nobody's individual interest. Quite a predicament.
- Supermancho 5y ago
  > hint "just stop" is not a winning position It is the ONLY winning position. (almost) Every part of the world talks incessantly about it or around it rather than actually taking the position. Saying "just stop" is only the first step and if you can't take that, you haven't realized that every other position is a losing position. The trick is that it's a worse and worse position each day. Saying "just stop" isn't supposed to win immediately against those who will fight you regardless of what you say. It's to show you're willing to take off the steering wheel in a head to head. Ofc, you don't want to say it when you don't mean it. I'm convinced that parts of the world, thirsty for water (and other resources) will go to war and it still will not stop. The hand wringing and peace making is unsurprising business as usual.
- spodek 5y ago
  Elon Musk is today's Robert Moses. People associate him with helping the environment, but he's pushing for growth as his top-line strategy. He may lower emissions from tailpipes, but systemically, he's exacerbating the problems.
- jquery 5y ago
  Elon? Is that the guy who moved to Texas to dodge taxes and regulations? Who’s expanding industry in one of the states with the least environmentally friendly laws in the nation? You know, a state where rolling coal is considered a pastime? Yeah no thanks. I sold my Tesla shares after he took a cheap shot at Bernie Sanders (funny how he never took a shot at Donald Trump, weird huh)…
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I’m guessing if Trump took a shot at him, he’d have quipped back, just as he did to Bernie.
    - jquery 5y ago
      Bernie didn’t take a shot at him, at least not directly. Nothing deserving a snarky reply.
anonporridge 5y ago
Might makes right. You can't "just stop" unless everyone does. But if there exists any competitive advantage to cheat and not stop, then those who do will become more powerful than those who don't. There definitely exists a competitive advantage to burn cheap fossil fuels since we get to externalize and socialize the negative consequences on everyone while privatizing the gains when we do. All hail Moloch, https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

8bitsrule 5y ago

Always good to be entertained while we court disaster.

anonporridge 5y ago
Makes me wondering if this will be the first civilization collapse that a large number of people saw coming decades ahead of time. That'd be interesting.
koheripbal 5y ago
Is it impossible for folks to imagine that some local biomes might gain biodiversity as a result of climate change? Alaska might be one of those places. Perhaps Siberia as well.
- wumpus 5y ago
  Sure, once Antarctica heats up, it'll gain a ton of biodiversity.
- redisman 5y ago
  Don’t forget milder weather also supports invasive species like tree boring beetles

aero-glide2 5y ago

There are many "faster than we thought" headlines for Climate change. What about "slower than we thought"? Do such studies not exist?

jquery 5y ago
What’s the point of a comment like this?
- omginternets 5y ago
  I think he’s just pointing out that many of the doomsday scenarios predicted in the past have revealed themselves to be damp squibs. Without denying the existence of climate change, it’s true that exaggerated claims have become the norm (and arguably harmed the credibility of ecologists).
  - mrow84 5y ago
    > it’s true that exaggerated claims have become the norm This is a very strong claim, and it is incumbent on you to provide evidence - for example, has there been a notable increase in retractions of scientific work in the fields you mention?
    - omginternets 5y ago
      Remember all the talk about El Niño in the early 00’s and how it’s disappearance would signal tangible catastrophe? How about the hole in the ozone layer? To nambw but a few
      - jquery 5y ago
        We took action on the ozone layer. El Niño is important is it not?
      - vkou 5y ago
        A weakened El Nino just contributed to an unparalleled rainstrom in British Columbia, cutting off ~3 million people from the rest of the country for a week[1], causing logistics failures that are expected to take months to resolve, killing tens of thousands of livestock, and was hours away from causing the Fraser river to flood the City of Abbotsford, which would have put half of it, and a large stretch of Highway 1 under 10 feet of water - which would have taken years to dam and drain. The province has since been in a state of emergency, banning non-essential highway travel. The Coquihalla highway, the primary lifeline into the rest of Canada won't even re-open for essential traffic until the end of January - and full repairs will take far longer. [1] The city of Chilliwack (pop ~100,000) was completely cut off from all supply routes for more than a week. No road access. No rail access. It has no airport of note. No food at the groceries, no prescriptions at the pharmacy, no food for the tens of thousands of livestock raised by its farmers. Right now, there's only one way into it (from Vancouver), and it is still being intermittently cut off by flooding.