5 ms·

I have seen stories of smart TVs doing active scans for any unsecured wifi network in range, then connecting and phoning home without ever informing the user or

I have seen stories of smart TVs doing active scans for any unsecured wifi network in range, then connecting and phoning home without ever informing the user or showing anything in the menus. Is that a real thing?

FearlessNebula 5y ago
Not only this, but how long until they start including a cheap modem and paying for their own cellular connectivity?
- 1121redblackgo 5y ago
  My god damn CPAP machine does this. Insurance required the modem in order for them to pay for it.
  - myrandomcomment 5y ago
    There a number of guides on disabling this. That being said you still need to bring the SD card to doctor every 6 months for review. This is a good thing. The doctor is trying to help you. I know someone that died because they went on a trip and forgot their CPAP and just stopped breathing in the middle of the night and did not wake up. It happens. When you get a CPAP there is a reason. Take it seriously. If you are having issues because of physically fixable issues there are surgeries that can help (I had 2 things fixed). Most of the time however its just being fat and physical. Loosing the weight helps and the effect can be tracked in the data the CPAP collects. The doctor can then use the data to adjust then pressure down. I am speaking from experience. My pressure setting has dropped as I took off the beer gut. This time next year I will likely be able to be done with it.
- Benjammer 5y ago
  Ugh this is way worse and actually seems far more likely and easy to accomplish than the public wifi thing...
  - Arrath 5y ago
    It's going to be time to crack the sucker open and burn out the traces to/from the modem, isn't it. E: And in the ongoing arms war, then manufacturer's ship remotes that no longer use tried and true IR but instead go over the same bluetooth or 2.4ghz chip. Some probably already do, I would expect.
    - mike-the-mikado 5y ago
      My new Panasonic TV has dual-mode remote control - IR+Bluetooth. Bluetooth means that you don't need to point the remote as accurately. Plus you can use a phone as remote control.
- bogwog 5y ago
  Or they buy access to things like this: https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 No need to include a modem when your customer's neighbor has an internet-connected toaster within bluetooth range of the TV.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- aendruk 5y ago
  See also Amazon Sidewalk.
- rodgerd 5y ago
  That's part of the push for 5G - the idea that it becomes much easier to have many more devices, hence you can drop a modem anywhere.
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  Jesus Christ, at that point I'd just go in the TV and snip a trace in it.
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    It won’t be long until we start taking a ddwrt approach and jtagging our tvs and replacing them with custom ROMs. We’ll be okay for another 5-10 years before they securely start locking that down too.
    - burnt_toast 5y ago
      I'm optimistic within 5-10 years we'll start to see the rise of open source tvs that'll save us. I have no sources to back this up but seeing the release of several open source laptops gives me hope.
blowfish721 5y ago
I’ve heard of this rumour and hope it’s true and that someone has evidence of a tv manufactor is doing this in the US. https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wi-fi-connection-laws.html https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wi-fi-connect...
jzymbaluk 5y ago
How would the TV phone home if it's not connected to the internet?
- rubidium 5y ago
  "doing active scans for any unsecured wifi network in range"
  - 10000truths 5y ago
    This doesn’t seem like a practical thing for manufacturers to implement. How common are such networks in actuality? Literally the only time I ever encountered unsecured Wi-Fi networks in the past several years were guest networks, and all of those were gated by a capture portal that would have blocked any sort of attempt at telemetry or ad serving.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      A deal with comcast and their ubiquitous pseudo public hotspots would simplify that.
      - Firehawke 5y ago
        xfinitywifi, the comparable similar functionality from CenturyLink, etc, or if you happen to live just a bit too close to a McDonalds or other business that has open WiFi. And of course the possibility of one of your neighbors screwing up his WiFi setup. There are a lot of ways this can (and has) gone horribly wrong for privacy.
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      I doubt any TV does this but if I needed to implement it I would just do it the same way that I use wifi in hotels that have captive portals without paying for it: tunnel IP over DNS.
    - kazinator 5y ago
      > doesn’t seem like a practical thing for manufacturers to implement. In terms of what, lines of code? Engineer days?
hellisothers 5y ago
Do you have a reference for this? I’ve heard this too but have never actually seen a first hand account
rodgerd 5y ago
Some also: 1. Scan the HDMI content and send information back to the mothership to help vendors know what you're watching. 2. Scan the local network for shares and look at media on them, again to send back to the mothership.
sys_64738 5y ago
This sounds crazily like science fiction. The TV wants to live so will do anything to stay alive. Isn't this what HAL did to the guy Dave in the end?
BearOso 5y ago
I doubt these stories. The number of people who get a smart TV and don’t connect it to the Internet are a minority. It’s just not worth the cost for any company to develop advanced features to spy on that limited subset.

FearlessNebula 5y ago

Not only this, but how long until they start including a cheap modem and paying for their own cellular connectivity?

1121redblackgo 5y ago
My god damn CPAP machine does this. Insurance required the modem in order for them to pay for it.
- myrandomcomment 5y ago
  There a number of guides on disabling this. That being said you still need to bring the SD card to doctor every 6 months for review. This is a good thing. The doctor is trying to help you. I know someone that died because they went on a trip and forgot their CPAP and just stopped breathing in the middle of the night and did not wake up. It happens. When you get a CPAP there is a reason. Take it seriously. If you are having issues because of physically fixable issues there are surgeries that can help (I had 2 things fixed). Most of the time however its just being fat and physical. Loosing the weight helps and the effect can be tracked in the data the CPAP collects. The doctor can then use the data to adjust then pressure down. I am speaking from experience. My pressure setting has dropped as I took off the beer gut. This time next year I will likely be able to be done with it.
Benjammer 5y ago
Ugh this is way worse and actually seems far more likely and easy to accomplish than the public wifi thing...
- Arrath 5y ago
  It's going to be time to crack the sucker open and burn out the traces to/from the modem, isn't it. E: And in the ongoing arms war, then manufacturer's ship remotes that no longer use tried and true IR but instead go over the same bluetooth or 2.4ghz chip. Some probably already do, I would expect.
  - mike-the-mikado 5y ago
    My new Panasonic TV has dual-mode remote control - IR+Bluetooth. Bluetooth means that you don't need to point the remote as accurately. Plus you can use a phone as remote control.
bogwog 5y ago
Or they buy access to things like this: https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 No need to include a modem when your customer's neighbor has an internet-connected toaster within bluetooth range of the TV.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
aendruk 5y ago
See also Amazon Sidewalk.
rodgerd 5y ago
That's part of the push for 5G - the idea that it becomes much easier to have many more devices, hence you can drop a modem anywhere.
RealityVoid 5y ago
Jesus Christ, at that point I'd just go in the TV and snip a trace in it.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  It won’t be long until we start taking a ddwrt approach and jtagging our tvs and replacing them with custom ROMs. We’ll be okay for another 5-10 years before they securely start locking that down too.
  - burnt_toast 5y ago
    I'm optimistic within 5-10 years we'll start to see the rise of open source tvs that'll save us. I have no sources to back this up but seeing the release of several open source laptops gives me hope.

blowfish721 5y ago

I’ve heard of this rumour and hope it’s true and that someone has evidence of a tv manufactor is doing this in the US. https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wi-fi-connection-laws.html https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wi-fi-connect...

jzymbaluk 5y ago

How would the TV phone home if it's not connected to the internet?

rubidium 5y ago
"doing active scans for any unsecured wifi network in range"
- 10000truths 5y ago
  This doesn’t seem like a practical thing for manufacturers to implement. How common are such networks in actuality? Literally the only time I ever encountered unsecured Wi-Fi networks in the past several years were guest networks, and all of those were gated by a capture portal that would have blocked any sort of attempt at telemetry or ad serving.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    A deal with comcast and their ubiquitous pseudo public hotspots would simplify that.
    - Firehawke 5y ago
      xfinitywifi, the comparable similar functionality from CenturyLink, etc, or if you happen to live just a bit too close to a McDonalds or other business that has open WiFi. And of course the possibility of one of your neighbors screwing up his WiFi setup. There are a lot of ways this can (and has) gone horribly wrong for privacy.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    I doubt any TV does this but if I needed to implement it I would just do it the same way that I use wifi in hotels that have captive portals without paying for it: tunnel IP over DNS.
  - kazinator 5y ago
    > doesn’t seem like a practical thing for manufacturers to implement. In terms of what, lines of code? Engineer days?

hellisothers 5y ago

Do you have a reference for this? I’ve heard this too but have never actually seen a first hand account

rodgerd 5y ago

Some also: 1. Scan the HDMI content and send information back to the mothership to help vendors know what you're watching. 2. Scan the local network for shares and look at media on them, again to send back to the mothership.

sys_64738 5y ago

This sounds crazily like science fiction. The TV wants to live so will do anything to stay alive. Isn't this what HAL did to the guy Dave in the end?

BearOso 5y ago

I doubt these stories. The number of people who get a smart TV and don’t connect it to the Internet are a minority. It’s just not worth the cost for any company to develop advanced features to spy on that limited subset.