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Susan Kare Explains Macintosh UI Ergonomics (1984) [video]
- marcodiego 5y agoFunny: starting the word processor was no instantaneous: https://youtu.be/x_q50tvbQm4?t=295 https://youtu.be/x_q50tvbQm4?t=295 !
- foodstances 5y agoOf course not, it's reading the entire program from a floppy disk
- Someone 5y agoNot the entire program; that wouldn’t have fitted in memory. The Segment Loader in classic Mac OS supported something similar to program overlays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlay_(programming) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlay_(programming)) in the sense that it allowed programs to be larger than available memory, but with an extra feature that, if memory permitted (it rarely did in the 128k Mac) segments could stay in memory.
- grishka 5y agoI thought classic Mac OS didn't have anything resembling virtual memory until its very final versions? How did that kind of segmentation work without virtual memory? Would you as a programmer have to keep track of which segments are loaded, ask the OS to load/unload them as needed, then just jump into that memory?
- Someone 5y agoLoading was automatic. Cross-segment calls were done using a system trap that brought in the code, locked it in memory and called a function at the specified offset in it. IIRC, unloading told the OS that the memory block containing the code now could be moved around or freed at will. Those cross-segment calls were slow, so distributing one’s code over various parts was a black art. You wanted a single segment for performance, multiple segments to leave more memory available for user data.
- fnord77 5y agogetting Bob Ross vibes from her voice
- rlawson 5y agoI put the computer chronicles on in the background while I code. It brings back happy memories of a time when the industry was a little less cynical.
- racl101 5y agoEvery unintentional click is a happy little accident.
- tbranyen 5y agoAll Computer Chronicles of that era are like this, check em out!
- olyjohn 5y agoThe Mac in the video does have a happy little icon when it boots up...
- xtracto 5y agoYes!! I got slight ASMR while listening to her voice. I could listen to her for hours.
- dsiegel2275 5y agoYes, indeed. I can attest to the fact that this video is quite popular in the "Unintentional ASMR" sub-genre.
- js2 5y agoMacintosh was the first consumer oriented computer designed entirely around a graphical user interface. It's remarkable how little has changed in the basic design since 1984. This very young Susan Kare was Apple's graphical designer at the time and is responsible for all of its icons among other things, many which survive to this day. The modern Macintosh Finder is a usability disaster compared to the original Macintosh Finder.
- marcellus23 5y ago> The modern Macintosh Finder is a usability disaster compared to the original Macintosh Finder. Can you expound on this or link to someone who does? I've read this many times, along with comparisons to some sort of utopic "spatial Finder", but I've never seen it explained. As someone who only started using Macs around Tiger I'd be curious to hear what was so good about the old Finder. (I don't find the modern one to be that bad, especially in comparison to Windows Explorer, although admittedly that's a very low bar)
- leejoramo 5y agoJohn Siracusa wrote the definitive posting about the spatial Finder back in 2003. He returned to this issue many times in his annual macOS reviews https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/
- marcellus23 5y agoThank you! I was thinking of John's reviews when I wrote that comment actually, I wasn't aware he wrote a whole article on it.
- Eric_WVGG 5y agoAlthough I am something of a "fan" of Siracusa (enjoyed his MacOS reviews for years, and still listen to a couple of his podcasts), I think he's just dead wrong about this Finder thing. The spatial Finder was a great idea when someone's collection of files was, say, the size of the contents of a set of desk drawers or a small filing cabinet. We busted through that limit over a decade ago. The typical computer user now has file collections the size of a municipal library. I don't think anyone would agree that a city library could be organized "spatially," where one librarian remembered where they left that copy of Twilight: New Moon. Libraries need a dewey decimal system. Likewise, modern file systems are best searched via keyword search (Spotlight), and organized via a file browser. And it appears that the contemporary evolution of all this is iOS and ChromeOS, which throw in the towel on organization altogether. I personally arrived at this conclusion all the way back with the release of Windows 95, where I decided that Windows Explorer, warts and all, just worked better for a big file collection than OS 7 Finder, and only came back to Mac with the advent of OS X. I certainly appreciate the beauty and psychological theory of the spatial Finder, but it just doesn't scale.
- reaperducer 5y agoI've always found it amusing that she got kare.com first, and the TV station down the street from her had to settle for kare11.com. +1 for the nerds.
- dingosity 5y agoStewart Cheifet has repeatedly pointed out he prefers people to reference copies of Computer Chronicles on archive.org. Computer Chronicles is still under copyright and the Internet Archive has the only license to host it as a free[*] stream / download. Here's the URL to the IA's copy of Jerry Manock and Susan Kare talking about the ergonomics of the Mac: https://archive.org/details/Computer1984_3?start=758 https://archive.org/details/Computer1984_3?start=758
- dang 5y agoOk, we've changed the URL to that from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_q50tvbQm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_q50tvbQm4 above. Thanks! (I changed the timestamp to where they start interviewing Susan Kare.)
- dingosity 5y agocool. the other cool thing about the archive's copy is you can move backwards to hear other people chat about ergonomics or forward to hear tech news from the era (like the Japanese consortium that fabbed a 1Mbit ROM. 128kbytes! WHAT WILL YOU DO WITH ALL THAT CAPACITY!)
- stephanerangaya 5y agoThe clarity Susan Kare has introducing these brand new UI concepts is amazing. She's awesome.
- musicale 5y agoThe Control Panel design is brilliant. (And why doesn't modern macOS have a convenient way to change the cursor blink rate - and one that works consistently/reliably across applications including Terminal and Safari?)
- azinman2 5y agoIt’s amazing to me to hear the shift in American accents over time. I’ve very recently listened to some home videos of my mother talking in the early 80s and her accent is similarly different in the way that they all were then. To me when I hear it everyone sounds like they’re from a Woody Allen movie in their speech patterns. It’s not just word pronunciation, but also the cadence that has changed. I’d love to know how/why that happens.
- webwielder2 5y agoAgreed, it is as fascinating as it is ineffable. Glad to see someone else finds it interesting.
- cmrdporcupine 5y agoHow much of it is accent shift and how much of it is the response to being recorded? Being on TV or Radio was a Really Big Deal, and people also were taught diction and public speaking in school. It's not just the US, BTW, I find it even more pronounced here in Canada. Listening to Canadian radio broadcasts from the 60s ... it's almost like they're from the UK. Different cadence and quite a bit more British Isles going on.
- azinman2 5y agoAs I said, I notice this in home movies, so I know for my own family this is the case. Because it's consistent with actual movies and TV programs, and it's ubiquitous across all of them, I cannot see how it could be something non-natural. We know accents change over time. Just listen to radio from the 30s or 50s to hear changes between then and the 70s or 80s. Then again to now. This is a human phenomena, and not one that would be isolated to just the US. However, for both Canada and the US immigrants should have an outsized impact on accent shifts compared to populations that are more stable. I'm curious to know the impetus for the change over time.
- diskzero 5y agoWhen I listen to current tech podcasts and interviews, I notice a lot of manufactured excitement and rapid fire interjection. There is more use of words like "Listen..", "Look...", "Absolutely..." etc. Perhaps this is a phenomena that is a result of an attempt to create entertainment and improve the marketing of the individual or brand. I am sure Susan wasn't thinking about creating content or marketing buzz. She was just thoughtfully discussing a project that she had great interest and passion in.
- herpderperator 5y agoWow, is she really using the mouse at a 90 degree angle with no problems whatsoever?
- ksd482 5y agoI was thinking about this as well. I figured as long as your eyes are fixated on the cursor, your brain can easily adjust with how you are holding the mouse.
- scelerat 5y agoI'm reminded that in the early days, Apple made an effort to personify the platform by referring to it as "Macintosh," not "THE Macintosh," as though one was referring to an individual with a proper name rather than an inanimate object. The early documentation (I still have the absolutely beautiful manual that came with my original 128k Mac) reflects this, with phrases like "learn about Macintosh"; "guided tour of Macintosh," etc. Kare is using this careful personal phrasing in the video above.
- redmare80 5y agoThey still do this. For example, it's "do something with iPhone" or "Try iPhone today". Although they refer to "an" iphone in the singular, it's never "the iPhone". Adobe also has some similar rules, for example, they prevent partners from using "photoshop" as a verb.
- musicale 5y agoToo bad Gary Kildall couldn't make it - it would have been amazing to see the father of CP/M (and grandfather of PC-DOS) react to Susan Kare's excellent Mac UI demo and design commentary. Also this is so different from (and much more relaxed than) a Steve Jobs presentation or interview, but still brilliant.
- thehours 5y agoIt's interesting that an early world processor like LisaWrite included a ruler and how little it has changed over the years. Was this standard among word processors of 1984? Aside: what 'real life' application used rulers in this fashion before word processors started using it?
- jjtheblunt 5y agothere were rulers on mechanical typewriters. (https://www.lostandfoundprops.com/product/vintage-smith-corona-cougar-typewriter-with-case/#prettyPhoto/0/ https://www.lostandfoundprops.com/product/vintage-smith-coro...)