6 ms·

As someone who has grown up (and learnt to drive) in England - I had a moment of sudden realisation in India. For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of

As someone who has grown up (and learnt to drive) in England - I had a moment of sudden realisation in India. For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies. In India, the horn means "I'm over here", to be used whenever you're near another vehicle. Which fits with the statements on the back of the lorries perfectly.

gpmcadam 5y ago
In the Highway Code, letting someone know that you're there is the only proposed use for both beeping the horn and flashing your lights at another driver.
- jkhdigital 5y ago
  Yes, it’s a bit ironic that the only reasonable use of a horn is often the least likely justification for honking by Western (or at least American) drivers. As an aside, Japanese drivers flash their lights (both headlights and taillights) as acknowledgement for letting them merge or pass—like the dual behavior of honking a horn as an expletive.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    That's common in the UK too. Rear warning lights that is, can't imagine when headlights would be in the right place for it; they're more often used by the other person in that scenario - 'after you'.
  - claviska 5y ago
    Here in the somewhat rural U.S., we tend to use the horn only when a driver isn’t paying attention when the light turns green and we’re behind them.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I’m in a city and over 90% of my horn usage amounts to “put down your damn phone; your light is green!”
  - skhr0680 5y ago
    Beware that flashing your highs in Japan can mean “GTFO out of my lane”, and some drivers get really mad about it
- thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
  For flashing headlights, the highway code is so far out of alignment with the real world that it would be more pragmatic to change the highway code to accommodate it and properly define liability. Being predictable is the most important thing for safety and you can't be predictable while treating all flashing headlights as a warning.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  That maybe so but common usage isn't aligned with what the Highway Code defines as correct usage. Take lights for example: + flashing headlights on a dual carriageway or motorway is a way of telling a driver to pull across so they can pass + flashing headlights near an obstruction is a way of telling another driver that you're giving them priority + following on from the previous point, flashing back is a way of saying thank you to the other driver for letting you take priority (this is done after you've already started moving to make it clear that you're not trying to hand priority back) + flashing hazards briefly is also used to say thank you, albeit typically if a vehicle is behind you rather than in front + flashing hazards on a duel carriageway or motorway is a way of warning other drivers that you're breaking heavily (as break lights don't inform the spectrum of difference between soft breaking and emergency stops). At least in this scenario you are actually informing others of an oncoming hazard I'm sure there'll be other colloquialism I've forgotten too
solohan 5y ago
This. I couldn't imagine driving in South East Asia without the horn. Scary story: My cousin almost killed a cyclist once after moving back to Europe after living in Asia for years. She used the horn as a friendly message (or so she thought) before passing. The cyclist, not being used to ever hearing horns on the road, got scared, looked over their shoulder and swerved out in front of the car.
- rhn_mk1 5y ago
  Car horns seem to be calibrated to be heard by someone wrapped in a car, and are too loud for unprotected listening. Bicycle bells are closer to that range. No wonder the cyclist got freaked out.
  - thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
    The Ineos Grenadier 4x4 has a button specifically for this purpose (& because it's made by a cycling team & makes for good PR). I don't know how useable it really would be. I don't think I'd ever use my horn to let a cyclist know I'm there. It's hard to do a friendly, quick double-toot consistently and, as you said, it's just too loud. It's more likely to cause an accident than just waiting longer to overtake. Horns are usually a rude thing, so they're scary to hear. Similarly, on a bike, I don't really use the bell to go around pedestrians on shared paths. Pedestrians aren't usually in the mindset of being aware of what's behind them, so the bell just makes them jump. You also can't express the difference between a friendly warning and a request to move with just a bell. Again, it's easier and more consistent to slow down and take responsibility for moving around them. (obviously, local cultures will vary)
    - unicornfinder 5y ago
      As a cyclist, I find it hard. I tend to avoid using the bell for the reason you've stated (i.e. it tends to just make them jump), but equally I've found not using it gets responses along the lines of "Use your f**ing bell".
      - 5y ago
OJFord 5y ago
> [in England ...] For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies. That is not the correct use in England, especially not 'get out of my way' (emergency services' vehicles aside) - and it needn't be an emergency (uh, again!). It's only supposed to be used to alert other drivers to your (non-stationary) presence, when it appears they haven't seen you or may not be afforded the opportunity - on a winding country road for example, less than two cars wide, it's common to sound it before a blind corner so that if you get one back you can both negotiate a careful passing, or the other car can pull over for you if they have the chance. Which is pretty similar to what you describe in India really, just quite a different bar for when you need to warn of your presence!
- cesaref 5y ago
  Indeed. As a driver in the UK, I use the horn so rarely that i've forgotten how to make it work when I need it.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  As someone who lives in the countryside and have multiple roads like you describe, I can comfortably say nobody honks the horn on blind corners nor narrow roads. Maybe it is like this on other English counties but I've not seen that to be the case when travelling either. Official or correct usages aside, the more typical usage for horns in England are: + impatience. eg a car going to slow and the driver behind is a dick. Though more often you'll see drivers flash their full beams instead. + as a way of alerting another driver in an emergency. eg your pulling into a lane where another car exists because you didn't see that other car. This is basically what the GP was saying, + or a sign of unhappiness. eg if you cut someone up on the road, you'll likely get honked at. It's basically used as a gesture, like swearing at the other driver.
  - mrsuprawsm 5y ago
    I have seen horns being commonly used on (extremely) rural Staffordshire roads at blind corners. It's definitely a thing. The other usages you describe are indeed more typical, though.
jcul 5y ago
I found it shocking at first in India. But then I spent a month riding a motorcycle in Vietnam, where they have the same practice, maybe not quite as intense. I realised it is more like a radar system so you know what is around you. Also the larger vehicles have right of way. Once you realise this the system starts to make more sense. After I remember riding a motorcycle in Thailand and getting the shock of my life as a big jeep zoomed past me without beeping. I really missed that extra auditory information source once it was gone.
technothrasher 5y ago
> For me, the horn is a warning sign Here in Massachusetts, it seems the horn has only three functions. The first, a quick "beep beep" signals that you recognize another driver or pedestrian and are saying hello. The second, a one to three second beep means that the traffic light has switched to green and car in front of you has not begun moving within 20ms. And the third, a five to sixty second "beeeeeeeeep" means that you consider the other driver to have made a mistake and needs to understand their very, very low place in the social hierarchy. This third one is the most used.
- amalcon 5y ago
  Worth noting that a "mistake" in Massachusetts includes not just things that are dangerous, but also such grave misconduct as stopping for a yellow light, going at only the speed limit, or riding a bicycle.
  - brirec 5y ago
    There’s something about being a motor vehicle driver that just makes bicycle riders very bad people
    - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
      There's a lot of confirmation bias at work, IMO. Some bicycle riders are indeed very bad people. They think they have the right-of-way in every scenario and will run red lights and act like the car drivers are the assholes when they almost get hit by cross-traffic that has the green. Drivers usually only notice the asshole bicyclists. But in some cases, drivers need to get over the fact that bicyclists exist and understand that sometimes the actions of a bicyclists, while inconvenient for the driver, are the safest. For example, bicyclists do not belong on sidewalks. In areas with a lot of pedestrians (like downtown city blocks), a bicyclist is going to be incredibly limited in their speed on the sidewalk. In suburbs, a bicyclist on the sidewalk is less likely to be seen by a driver and is more likely to get hit by a car making a turn, especially if there are cars parked on the curb. In some states, it's actually illegal for bicyclists to ride on the sidewalk. When they ride in the middle of the lane, it's not to be a dick. It's because there are dick drivers that will pass them and give them only a couple inches of space, which is dangerous. By riding in the middle, when a driver passes, it gives them a lot of room to move to the right if they feel the driver isn't giving them adequate space.
NamTaf 5y ago
Same from my limited experience in China. You use the horn as you approach to overtake someone, change lanes into traffic, etc. to say 'I am here'. It in effect replaces the indicators in many situations.

gpmcadam 5y ago

In the Highway Code, letting someone know that you're there is the only proposed use for both beeping the horn and flashing your lights at another driver.

jkhdigital 5y ago
Yes, it’s a bit ironic that the only reasonable use of a horn is often the least likely justification for honking by Western (or at least American) drivers. As an aside, Japanese drivers flash their lights (both headlights and taillights) as acknowledgement for letting them merge or pass—like the dual behavior of honking a horn as an expletive.
- OJFord 5y ago
  That's common in the UK too. Rear warning lights that is, can't imagine when headlights would be in the right place for it; they're more often used by the other person in that scenario - 'after you'.
- claviska 5y ago
  Here in the somewhat rural U.S., we tend to use the horn only when a driver isn’t paying attention when the light turns green and we’re behind them.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I’m in a city and over 90% of my horn usage amounts to “put down your damn phone; your light is green!”
- skhr0680 5y ago
  Beware that flashing your highs in Japan can mean “GTFO out of my lane”, and some drivers get really mad about it
thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
For flashing headlights, the highway code is so far out of alignment with the real world that it would be more pragmatic to change the highway code to accommodate it and properly define liability. Being predictable is the most important thing for safety and you can't be predictable while treating all flashing headlights as a warning.
hnlmorg 5y ago
That maybe so but common usage isn't aligned with what the Highway Code defines as correct usage. Take lights for example: + flashing headlights on a dual carriageway or motorway is a way of telling a driver to pull across so they can pass + flashing headlights near an obstruction is a way of telling another driver that you're giving them priority + following on from the previous point, flashing back is a way of saying thank you to the other driver for letting you take priority (this is done after you've already started moving to make it clear that you're not trying to hand priority back) + flashing hazards briefly is also used to say thank you, albeit typically if a vehicle is behind you rather than in front + flashing hazards on a duel carriageway or motorway is a way of warning other drivers that you're breaking heavily (as break lights don't inform the spectrum of difference between soft breaking and emergency stops). At least in this scenario you are actually informing others of an oncoming hazard I'm sure there'll be other colloquialism I've forgotten too

solohan 5y ago

This. I couldn't imagine driving in South East Asia without the horn. Scary story: My cousin almost killed a cyclist once after moving back to Europe after living in Asia for years. She used the horn as a friendly message (or so she thought) before passing. The cyclist, not being used to ever hearing horns on the road, got scared, looked over their shoulder and swerved out in front of the car.

rhn_mk1 5y ago
Car horns seem to be calibrated to be heard by someone wrapped in a car, and are too loud for unprotected listening. Bicycle bells are closer to that range. No wonder the cyclist got freaked out.
- thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
  The Ineos Grenadier 4x4 has a button specifically for this purpose (& because it's made by a cycling team & makes for good PR). I don't know how useable it really would be. I don't think I'd ever use my horn to let a cyclist know I'm there. It's hard to do a friendly, quick double-toot consistently and, as you said, it's just too loud. It's more likely to cause an accident than just waiting longer to overtake. Horns are usually a rude thing, so they're scary to hear. Similarly, on a bike, I don't really use the bell to go around pedestrians on shared paths. Pedestrians aren't usually in the mindset of being aware of what's behind them, so the bell just makes them jump. You also can't express the difference between a friendly warning and a request to move with just a bell. Again, it's easier and more consistent to slow down and take responsibility for moving around them. (obviously, local cultures will vary)
  - unicornfinder 5y ago
    As a cyclist, I find it hard. I tend to avoid using the bell for the reason you've stated (i.e. it tends to just make them jump), but equally I've found not using it gets responses along the lines of "Use your f**ing bell".
    - 5y ago

OJFord 5y ago

> [in England ...] For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies. That is not the correct use in England, especially not 'get out of my way' (emergency services' vehicles aside) - and it needn't be an emergency (uh, again!). It's only supposed to be used to alert other drivers to your (non-stationary) presence, when it appears they haven't seen you or may not be afforded the opportunity - on a winding country road for example, less than two cars wide, it's common to sound it before a blind corner so that if you get one back you can both negotiate a careful passing, or the other car can pull over for you if they have the chance. Which is pretty similar to what you describe in India really, just quite a different bar for when you need to warn of your presence!

cesaref 5y ago
Indeed. As a driver in the UK, I use the horn so rarely that i've forgotten how to make it work when I need it.
hnlmorg 5y ago
As someone who lives in the countryside and have multiple roads like you describe, I can comfortably say nobody honks the horn on blind corners nor narrow roads. Maybe it is like this on other English counties but I've not seen that to be the case when travelling either. Official or correct usages aside, the more typical usage for horns in England are: + impatience. eg a car going to slow and the driver behind is a dick. Though more often you'll see drivers flash their full beams instead. + as a way of alerting another driver in an emergency. eg your pulling into a lane where another car exists because you didn't see that other car. This is basically what the GP was saying, + or a sign of unhappiness. eg if you cut someone up on the road, you'll likely get honked at. It's basically used as a gesture, like swearing at the other driver.
- mrsuprawsm 5y ago
  I have seen horns being commonly used on (extremely) rural Staffordshire roads at blind corners. It's definitely a thing. The other usages you describe are indeed more typical, though.

jcul 5y ago

I found it shocking at first in India. But then I spent a month riding a motorcycle in Vietnam, where they have the same practice, maybe not quite as intense. I realised it is more like a radar system so you know what is around you. Also the larger vehicles have right of way. Once you realise this the system starts to make more sense. After I remember riding a motorcycle in Thailand and getting the shock of my life as a big jeep zoomed past me without beeping. I really missed that extra auditory information source once it was gone.

technothrasher 5y ago

> For me, the horn is a warning sign Here in Massachusetts, it seems the horn has only three functions. The first, a quick "beep beep" signals that you recognize another driver or pedestrian and are saying hello. The second, a one to three second beep means that the traffic light has switched to green and car in front of you has not begun moving within 20ms. And the third, a five to sixty second "beeeeeeeeep" means that you consider the other driver to have made a mistake and needs to understand their very, very low place in the social hierarchy. This third one is the most used.

amalcon 5y ago
Worth noting that a "mistake" in Massachusetts includes not just things that are dangerous, but also such grave misconduct as stopping for a yellow light, going at only the speed limit, or riding a bicycle.
- brirec 5y ago
  There’s something about being a motor vehicle driver that just makes bicycle riders very bad people
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    There's a lot of confirmation bias at work, IMO. Some bicycle riders are indeed very bad people. They think they have the right-of-way in every scenario and will run red lights and act like the car drivers are the assholes when they almost get hit by cross-traffic that has the green. Drivers usually only notice the asshole bicyclists. But in some cases, drivers need to get over the fact that bicyclists exist and understand that sometimes the actions of a bicyclists, while inconvenient for the driver, are the safest. For example, bicyclists do not belong on sidewalks. In areas with a lot of pedestrians (like downtown city blocks), a bicyclist is going to be incredibly limited in their speed on the sidewalk. In suburbs, a bicyclist on the sidewalk is less likely to be seen by a driver and is more likely to get hit by a car making a turn, especially if there are cars parked on the curb. In some states, it's actually illegal for bicyclists to ride on the sidewalk. When they ride in the middle of the lane, it's not to be a dick. It's because there are dick drivers that will pass them and give them only a couple inches of space, which is dangerous. By riding in the middle, when a driver passes, it gives them a lot of room to move to the right if they feel the driver isn't giving them adequate space.

NamTaf 5y ago

Same from my limited experience in China. You use the horn as you approach to overtake someone, change lanes into traffic, etc. to say 'I am here'. It in effect replaces the indicators in many situations.