6 ms·

To me it sounds like this is used to test a rewrite of all their IDEs because it is written from scratch. I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will upda

by tdrdt 5y ago

To me it sounds like this is used to test a rewrite of all their IDEs because it is written from scratch. I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will update all their IDEs or use Fleet as the new platform.

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
To me it sounds like they are trying to counter the assault of VSCode onto their market share.
agilob 5y ago
Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if we look at other surveys, IntelliJ IDEA is usually one the most used IDEs, and usually has around a 55-60% share of users. VS Code is growing which is concerning, not from a competitive point of view but actually from the point of view that there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you. VS Code is a code editor with some features that you’d find in an IDE, and extensions that can provide additional functionality – so if people are turning to VS Code for developing it may imply that developers don’t know what a fully-featured IDE can give them. In the web space it is understandable to use an editor as web developers are typically working with dynamic languages, and often use other tools like browser plugins to give them what they need. But in Java, especially professional Java, you really get a lot out of a good tool that has integration with the application server and you can really use the analysis and refactoring and everything. Specifically this part: > VS Code is growing which is concerning, not from a competitive point of view but actually from the point of view that there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you. https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2020/09/a-picture-of-java-in-2020/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2020/09/a-picture-of-java-in... People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never
- atraac 5y ago
  > People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do not understand why a certain paid IDE could be better, because they never tried it. Which is right with their statement. People keep parroting about greatness of vscode because it gets them through the day of making hello world apps and never have to actually debug more complex code or work with bigger codebases. Does it work in big projects for some(usually experienced) poeple? Sure. Is it the best way of working? Usually no(in my opinion at least).
  - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
    I tend to agree. It's a bit like the dynamic vs. static typing situation. New comers often prefer languages like Python at first for their simplicity, only to "rediscover" that static typing is so much more manageable later in their career.
    - BackBlast 5y ago
      My career has been the opposite. I grew up on C, C++, then Java. Now I'm on dynamically typed languages and appreciate their advantages and prefer them.
      - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
        I also grew up on C then Java. Now I mostly work with Python but when things get serious I usually turn to JVM languages. The feeling knowing I can relentlessly refactor my code without breaking a thing and not having to worry about typos is just wonderful!
        smrtinsert 5y ago
        Yeah context is required for these discussions. Anyone will love coding small digestible functions in python in a jupyter notebook. It's really fast. You might make a lot of mistakes (wrong import, wrong type, incorrect variable reference etc) but since the edit/refresh cycle is instant, it's not a big deal. Let's see how you feel about Python trying to application that has to be industrial strength and grown quickly for a business.
ignoramous 5y ago
> I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will update all their IDEs or use Fleet as the new platform. Fleet may very well be the main focus for IntelliJ in the future. It is highly moduralized [0], which makes it seem like they're going after github.dev, stackblitz.com, replit.com and not just VSCode. [0] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/fleet/1.0/architecture-overview.html https://www.jetbrains.com/help/fleet/1.0/architecture-overvi...
hinkley 5y ago
Often, there are one or two voices inside of a company that have the same complaints as customers, but they can't get any traction on the issue until users complain about it. I've been on several projects where we coached or were coached about asking our boss to ask their boss for something with a specific keyword that they could use for leverage. In college, I left my ATM card in a machine and the person behind me pulled out the max daily limit on my account. I don't think the cops were able to ID him off of the grainy back-lit video from the machine. This was a new model of ATM that had worse ergonomics than the previous one. Turns out someone at the bank already hated these machines, and he arranged to refund me the lost money (which I'm fairly sure now he would have had to do anyway) in exchange for a signed complaint that he could add to his evidence trove. "People are dumb. A person is smart." also applies to companies. The thing is that if you're too rude when you make a complaint, you make bad evidence. If you're too polite, the same is also true. "We should fix this because this totally happy customer said we should" might work once in a while but it's easier to sell your boss on "customers are pissed about X which is also pissing me off." I struggle to find the right line between the two when I have to call customer support. Since I don't usually like to call CS at all, when I do it's usually because I'm pretty spun up.
ksec 5y ago
I am wondering if it is still written in Java. It will be interesting to see how a light weight Java Editor compete against another light weight Web / DOM Editor. And if it is Java, would be there any Substrate VM / Graal tools going into it.

by tdrdt 5y ago

sam_lowry_ 5y ago

To me it sounds like they are trying to counter the assault of VSCode onto their market share.

agilob 5y ago

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if we look at other surveys, IntelliJ IDEA is usually one the most used IDEs, and usually has around a 55-60% share of users. VS Code is growing which is concerning, not from a competitive point of view but actually from the point of view that there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you. VS Code is a code editor with some features that you’d find in an IDE, and extensions that can provide additional functionality – so if people are turning to VS Code for developing it may imply that developers don’t know what a fully-featured IDE can give them. In the web space it is understandable to use an editor as web developers are typically working with dynamic languages, and often use other tools like browser plugins to give them what they need. But in Java, especially professional Java, you really get a lot out of a good tool that has integration with the application server and you can really use the analysis and refactoring and everything. Specifically this part: > VS Code is growing which is concerning, not from a competitive point of view but actually from the point of view that there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you. https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2020/09/a-picture-of-java-in-2020/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2020/09/a-picture-of-java-in... People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never

atraac 5y ago
> People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do not understand why a certain paid IDE could be better, because they never tried it. Which is right with their statement. People keep parroting about greatness of vscode because it gets them through the day of making hello world apps and never have to actually debug more complex code or work with bigger codebases. Does it work in big projects for some(usually experienced) poeple? Sure. Is it the best way of working? Usually no(in my opinion at least).
- RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
  I tend to agree. It's a bit like the dynamic vs. static typing situation. New comers often prefer languages like Python at first for their simplicity, only to "rediscover" that static typing is so much more manageable later in their career.
  - BackBlast 5y ago
    My career has been the opposite. I grew up on C, C++, then Java. Now I'm on dynamically typed languages and appreciate their advantages and prefer them.
    - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
      I also grew up on C then Java. Now I mostly work with Python but when things get serious I usually turn to JVM languages. The feeling knowing I can relentlessly refactor my code without breaking a thing and not having to worry about typos is just wonderful!
      - smrtinsert 5y ago
        Yeah context is required for these discussions. Anyone will love coding small digestible functions in python in a jupyter notebook. It's really fast. You might make a lot of mistakes (wrong import, wrong type, incorrect variable reference etc) but since the edit/refresh cycle is instant, it's not a big deal. Let's see how you feel about Python trying to application that has to be industrial strength and grown quickly for a business.

ignoramous 5y ago

> I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will update all their IDEs or use Fleet as the new platform. Fleet may very well be the main focus for IntelliJ in the future. It is highly moduralized [0], which makes it seem like they're going after github.dev, stackblitz.com, replit.com and not just VSCode. [0] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/fleet/1.0/architecture-overview.html https://www.jetbrains.com/help/fleet/1.0/architecture-overvi...

hinkley 5y ago

Often, there are one or two voices inside of a company that have the same complaints as customers, but they can't get any traction on the issue until users complain about it. I've been on several projects where we coached or were coached about asking our boss to ask their boss for something with a specific keyword that they could use for leverage. In college, I left my ATM card in a machine and the person behind me pulled out the max daily limit on my account. I don't think the cops were able to ID him off of the grainy back-lit video from the machine. This was a new model of ATM that had worse ergonomics than the previous one. Turns out someone at the bank already hated these machines, and he arranged to refund me the lost money (which I'm fairly sure now he would have had to do anyway) in exchange for a signed complaint that he could add to his evidence trove. "People are dumb. A person is smart." also applies to companies. The thing is that if you're too rude when you make a complaint, you make bad evidence. If you're too polite, the same is also true. "We should fix this because this totally happy customer said we should" might work once in a while but it's easier to sell your boss on "customers are pissed about X which is also pissing me off." I struggle to find the right line between the two when I have to call customer support. Since I don't usually like to call CS at all, when I do it's usually because I'm pretty spun up.

ksec 5y ago

I am wondering if it is still written in Java. It will be interesting to see how a light weight Java Editor compete against another light weight Web / DOM Editor. And if it is Java, would be there any Substrate VM / Graal tools going into it.