4 ms·

Little bit offtopic; I try jetbrains ide's every time I get a new laptop; lately Rider for a 1m+ LoC c# project on my 16gb m1. It is unusable. I like the featur

Little bit offtopic; I try jetbrains ide's every time I get a new laptop; lately Rider for a 1m+ LoC c# project on my 16gb m1. It is unusable. I like the features but it is so incredibly slow... and it gets even slower as the day goes on.

bosie 5y ago
Which bits are slow?
gjvc 5y ago
The culprit is the JDK11-based JBR. I was ready to dump JetBrains tools due to their lagginess, but with some deviousness (which might not suit you), I now have them running slipperier than a wet fish, by using JDK15/16 and JAOTC. Instructions are here: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-run-faster/ https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r... (I am very keen to tell people who are in the same despair as I was about how slow JetBrains apps are out of the box -- hope it's not considered bad form to link to one's own blog post about it.)
- tluyben2 5y ago
  I will try this now; thanks for that!
  - gjvc 5y ago
    please email me if you have any corrections / suggestions for improvement for the instructions :-)
    - citizenmatt 5y ago
      Please note that the JBR is a custom build that contains a number of important changes and fixes, and it's not recommended to replace this. For M1 support, it's much better to use an M1 compatible JVM and .NET runtime. Rider 2021.2 is an Intel build, because when it was released there was no M1 compatible .NET Runtime. Rider 2021.3 has an M1 build, and makes a big difference. It's currently in preview (https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/) but will be released in the next week or so.
      - gjvc 5y ago
        Liberica offers an M1 JVM https://bell-sw.com/announcements/2021/03/12/Liberica-on-Apple-Silicon/ https://bell-sw.com/announcements/2021/03/12/Liberica-on-App... I wonder if JetBrains has some incentive to keep Mac users happy at the expense of others, because there is no justification for the unacceptably bad performance of CLion, PyCharm, and IDEA with a version 11 JDK on Linux, given how much better it is on JDK 15/16. I have never seen any indication that they have are going to address this, nor have they even acknowledged that it's a problem, nor that they intend to upgrade from JDK 11 to something more up-to-date. Still, they have 1 year and 10 months from now until the end of active support, so perhaps this might provoke them into action. The fact that JBR even exists is a red flag. Should every vendor ship their own JVM?!
        gjvc 5y ago
        This YouTrack item https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-3729 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-3729 tells that JetBrains have been working on a JDK17 version of JBR for 2022.1, which amazingly, is almost upon us. I am looking forward to seeing what it's like!
      - vips7L 5y ago
        I was under the impression that the JBR is missing a number of important changes and fixes that have already been mainlined into OpenJdk.
        gjvc 5y ago
        Would love to see some examples of this please :-)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tmstieff 5y ago
  I've tried this now on my 2019 Macbook pro, and my 2018 Thinkpad T480 running Linux. On Mac, I can't say I really noticed a difference. Also there were quite a few font rendering issues that were resolved with whatever patches Jetbrains has applied. On Linux, certain actions are definitely faster. For instance, Ctrl+Tab to either quickly tab switch or bring up the tab switcher menu was always instantaneous, where-as beforehand there was sometimes a pretty long delay.
tdrdt 5y ago
That's strange. When I open a 1m+ LoC in Rider it takes around 2GB of RAM [1] but is still very workable. Ofcourse it is not extremely fast but I am always impressed this even works with all the code hints, indexed code and what not. By the way, sometimes a corrupted cache can be a problem. You can fix this via File -> Invalidate Caches. [1] AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32GB RAM, NVMe disk. Ubuntu.
phonicwheel 5y ago
Just in case you haven't tried that yet, increase the IDE's memory heap size. That solved the problem of sluggishness for me.
- m_eiman 5y ago
  Why hasn't Java added an option for automatic heap sizing for the desktop application use case (or any use case, for that matter)? Seems like a no-brainer thing to add, so I guess there are Reasons(tm).
  - kaba0 5y ago
    It is configured by jetbrains (I guess to not use as much memory as Java would default to)
  - native_samples 5y ago
    It has. Modern JVMs can use as much memory as they "need" to, but for some reason JetBrains don't use this feature. I think after they upgrade to Java 17 they'll get it. But this has really killed their brand for a long time. 99% of the time people complain about their IDEs being slow it's because the app is GC thrashing and burning CPU rather than increase heap size.
    - vips7L 5y ago
      I was under the impression that every gc still defaulted -Xmx to 25% of available memory.
HatchedLake721 5y ago
Have you waited for indexing to finish?
- maratc 5y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/9v7i1w/thats_just_intellij_indexing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/9v7i1w/tha...
FpUser 5y ago
I have 3 main development computers on which I use CLion. One is shared duty workstation/server with 20 cores and 512GB RAM another is main desktop desktop with 16 cores and 128GB RAM and 3rd is tiny small factor PC with 8 cores and 128GB RAM which I drag around to summer cottage etc. CLion is very fast on either. I guess gobbles of RAM counts. I also have laptops with 32GB RAM each but did not try it on those as I no longer use laptops for development (no business need). Still as my main development language for backend is C++ I mostly use Visual Studio. Especially since their preview version allows seamless development / debugging on remote Linux server. Hard to describe but it just fits me better, feels more "natural".
minimaul 5y ago
If you're not using the EAP build of Rider, you're running an Intel IDE on that M1 laptop (see: https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/4401925025810 https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/440192... ). Try the Rider EAP with .net 6 - I find native arm64 .net flies on my M1 mac mini and M1 Max 14" MBP.

bosie 5y ago

Which bits are slow?

gjvc 5y ago

The culprit is the JDK11-based JBR. I was ready to dump JetBrains tools due to their lagginess, but with some deviousness (which might not suit you), I now have them running slipperier than a wet fish, by using JDK15/16 and JAOTC. Instructions are here: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-run-faster/ https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r... (I am very keen to tell people who are in the same despair as I was about how slow JetBrains apps are out of the box -- hope it's not considered bad form to link to one's own blog post about it.)

tluyben2 5y ago
I will try this now; thanks for that!
- gjvc 5y ago
  please email me if you have any corrections / suggestions for improvement for the instructions :-)
  - citizenmatt 5y ago
    Please note that the JBR is a custom build that contains a number of important changes and fixes, and it's not recommended to replace this. For M1 support, it's much better to use an M1 compatible JVM and .NET runtime. Rider 2021.2 is an Intel build, because when it was released there was no M1 compatible .NET Runtime. Rider 2021.3 has an M1 build, and makes a big difference. It's currently in preview (https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/) but will be released in the next week or so.
    - gjvc 5y ago
      Liberica offers an M1 JVM https://bell-sw.com/announcements/2021/03/12/Liberica-on-Apple-Silicon/ https://bell-sw.com/announcements/2021/03/12/Liberica-on-App... I wonder if JetBrains has some incentive to keep Mac users happy at the expense of others, because there is no justification for the unacceptably bad performance of CLion, PyCharm, and IDEA with a version 11 JDK on Linux, given how much better it is on JDK 15/16. I have never seen any indication that they have are going to address this, nor have they even acknowledged that it's a problem, nor that they intend to upgrade from JDK 11 to something more up-to-date. Still, they have 1 year and 10 months from now until the end of active support, so perhaps this might provoke them into action. The fact that JBR even exists is a red flag. Should every vendor ship their own JVM?!
      - gjvc 5y ago
        This YouTrack item https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-3729 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-3729 tells that JetBrains have been working on a JDK17 version of JBR for 2022.1, which amazingly, is almost upon us. I am looking forward to seeing what it's like!
    - vips7L 5y ago
      I was under the impression that the JBR is missing a number of important changes and fixes that have already been mainlined into OpenJdk.
      - gjvc 5y ago
        Would love to see some examples of this please :-)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tmstieff 5y ago
I've tried this now on my 2019 Macbook pro, and my 2018 Thinkpad T480 running Linux. On Mac, I can't say I really noticed a difference. Also there were quite a few font rendering issues that were resolved with whatever patches Jetbrains has applied. On Linux, certain actions are definitely faster. For instance, Ctrl+Tab to either quickly tab switch or bring up the tab switcher menu was always instantaneous, where-as beforehand there was sometimes a pretty long delay.

tdrdt 5y ago

That's strange. When I open a 1m+ LoC in Rider it takes around 2GB of RAM [1] but is still very workable. Ofcourse it is not extremely fast but I am always impressed this even works with all the code hints, indexed code and what not. By the way, sometimes a corrupted cache can be a problem. You can fix this via File -> Invalidate Caches. [1] AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32GB RAM, NVMe disk. Ubuntu.

phonicwheel 5y ago

Just in case you haven't tried that yet, increase the IDE's memory heap size. That solved the problem of sluggishness for me.

m_eiman 5y ago
Why hasn't Java added an option for automatic heap sizing for the desktop application use case (or any use case, for that matter)? Seems like a no-brainer thing to add, so I guess there are Reasons(tm).
- kaba0 5y ago
  It is configured by jetbrains (I guess to not use as much memory as Java would default to)
- native_samples 5y ago
  It has. Modern JVMs can use as much memory as they "need" to, but for some reason JetBrains don't use this feature. I think after they upgrade to Java 17 they'll get it. But this has really killed their brand for a long time. 99% of the time people complain about their IDEs being slow it's because the app is GC thrashing and burning CPU rather than increase heap size.
  - vips7L 5y ago
    I was under the impression that every gc still defaulted -Xmx to 25% of available memory.

HatchedLake721 5y ago

Have you waited for indexing to finish?

maratc 5y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/9v7i1w/thats_just_intellij_indexing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/9v7i1w/tha...

FpUser 5y ago

I have 3 main development computers on which I use CLion. One is shared duty workstation/server with 20 cores and 512GB RAM another is main desktop desktop with 16 cores and 128GB RAM and 3rd is tiny small factor PC with 8 cores and 128GB RAM which I drag around to summer cottage etc. CLion is very fast on either. I guess gobbles of RAM counts. I also have laptops with 32GB RAM each but did not try it on those as I no longer use laptops for development (no business need). Still as my main development language for backend is C++ I mostly use Visual Studio. Especially since their preview version allows seamless development / debugging on remote Linux server. Hard to describe but it just fits me better, feels more "natural".

minimaul 5y ago

If you're not using the EAP build of Rider, you're running an Intel IDE on that M1 laptop (see: https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/4401925025810 https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/440192... ). Try the Rider EAP with .net 6 - I find native arm64 .net flies on my M1 mac mini and M1 Max 14" MBP.