12 ms·

T-Mobile CDMA network shutting down soon

134 points by provobro 5y ago

fomine3 5y ago
I surprised that US iPhone 13 still supports CDMA2000 EV-DO. Is it still worth to support?
- dkdk8283 5y ago
  Apple uses a Qualcomm baseband chip. They share the capabilities with other manufacturers, but Apple is working on their own baseband chip which they expect to ship in 2023.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    But they don't have to implement CDMA2000 like other countries' models even though it uses Qualcomm chip.
    - sumtechguy 5y ago
      The chipset the qcom modem they are using probably supports it. Would depend on the firmware and sometimes a grounded pin if it is on or not. Much like FM radio in many of these devices is 'there' but not turned on/wired up. For the new chipset that Apple is making I seriously doubt they would support that standard, esp if the big telcos are turning it off. But it would depend on what sort of contract they have with the telco.
- mdasen 5y ago
  That's a hard question to give a definitive answer to. In many ways, the answer is "no". However, as with most things in tech, there are always edge cases. Sprint's network (which T-Mobile bought and is integrating into the T-Mobile network) never went fully VoLTE (voice over LTE) so if you had a phone that didn't support CDMA voice and you were on the Sprint network experience and you traveled to one of the rare areas where Sprint had coverage and T-Mobile didn't and there was no Sprint VoLTE available... The thing about wireless is that there's always some vocal person who is getting better service from something that is worse for 99.9% of people. Of course, 99.9% means that you have one person out of every thousand and if you're a wireless carrier with over 100M customers, that means 100,000 people might be annoyed by progress. In America where there's a huge rural population that expects all the amenities of big cities while the nearest neighbor is a quarter mile away, that can create some issues. Plus, it's not just the 3 national carriers. There are also smaller carriers like US Cellular whose VoLTE support is newer, Shentel (who T-Mobile has more recently bought and whose network will get integrated probably in 2022/2023), etc. Those smaller carriers may not have upgraded all of their network yet. If you're European, the idea that we chopped up our licensing into hundreds of tiny license areas might sound weird (734 cellular market areas for the initial licenses, different sizes/shapes for subsequent licensing). VoLTE interoperability has been a bit of a nightmare and so CDMA has offered a certain amount of fallback for roaming (though that situation has mostly gotten cleared up, partly because T-Mobile didn't really have legacy compatibility to fall back on). Finally, is it worth supporting? Ultimately, the support comes for free given that Qualcomm's X60 modem was going to support it whether Apple wanted that support or not. I think the iPhone 14 will support CDMA as well simply because Qualcomm's X65 modem will support it. I'm guessing that CDMA support will be dropped with the iPhone 15 when Apple moves to their own, in-house modems. Verizon is shutting down their CDMA network at the end of 2022. By the time the iPhone 15 launches in fall 2023, CDMA will be quite dead. But legacy things stick around for a long time because even when it's not used by 99.9% of people, there's always some that will vocally complain about change and regulators don't like the idea of customer equipment being rendered useless.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Thanks. Licensing for tiny areas looks interesting.
  - toast0 5y ago
    > By the time the iPhone 15 launches in fall 2023, CDMA will be quite dead. Perhaps in the US, but CDMA is used elsewhere too. In several countries in the recent past, fixed wireless CDMA operators (intended for home phone lines) started operating mobile handsets. Those places may not be on the upgrade path to LTE anytime soon, because of expense.
    - mdasen 5y ago
      This is one of those "but actually" things that always happens (and why I can't give a straight answer and why I should have hedged that statement as well). The question was about the US and Apple and I responded about the US and Apple, but I should have know I'd get a "but actually" if I didn't hedge everything. I don't know what country/network you're talking about, but it looks like Uzbekistan might be the only country that's valid for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks Beeline Armenia doesn't have a shutdown date, they also have GSM/UMTS/LTE service and their CDMA network is at 450MHz which the iPhone has never supported. MPT has an LTE service. That leaves Perfectum Mobile in Uzbekistan which looks like it's still heavy in CDMA. Uzmobile also seems to run CDMA at 450MHz, but again the iPhone never supported that. Going through Perfectum's website and looking at their suitable models feels like growing Verizon and Sprint's website from years past. Yea, I should have hedged further and said "in the US and for Apple's purposes." Really though, I can only find Uzbekistan as an exception. And I could see Uzbekistan lingering on CDMA. Are there more? I'm not even saying that old tech doesn't linger. Part of it is that CDMA wasn't popular in most of the world. GSM support will stick around longer because it was so popular. Most places that had CDMA networks have replaced them. CDMA kinda became a dead-end technology as Qualcomm's UMB evolution didn't happen - once Verizon chose LTE, there wasn't much of a point. Honestly, it would have been cool if you'd added information about countries and networks where CDMA might stick around. I'd love interesting information - I literally went around looking for the information not included in your comment. Without that information, it just feels like "I know you were talking about Apple and the US, but actually..."
- agent86 5y ago
  This likely mirrors what happened when we moved from analog to digital. CDMA versions of phones like the Motorola v60 came with pull out antennas and were still capable of latching on to analog signals. It would drain the battery pretty quickly, but it worked. Most people, most of the time, were riding digital signals and their phones never saw analog, but yet it was still there. A few things came into play: 1) The CDMA chipset in the phone had analog capability, so it was basically "free" to utilize. 2) Analog signal still worked well in rural/mountainous areas where it carried better. 3) It was still in active use with regional carriers they had roaming agreements with. My guess is that similar conditions are why it is still in play in today's phones.
- csomar 5y ago
  Lots of people buy their phones in the USA through relatives and then ship them to their own country. That might have prompted Apple to support stuff that they no longer need in the US?
sharmin123 5y ago
Instagram Phishing Attack: Instagram Hack Steps and Shields: https://www.hackerslist.co/instagram-phishing-attack-instagram-hack-steps-and-shields/ https://www.hackerslist.co/instagram-phishing-attack-instagr...
wl 5y ago
It seems that a lot of companies have delayed their 3G sunset replacement plans until the last minute and then supply chain shortages pushed them over the deadline.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  Are there stock shortages in the types of phones Boost would be offering as replacements for 3G phones? I wouldn't think so, but who knows.
  - PopAlongKid 5y ago
    Boost is only offering replacement SIM cards, not phones, at least in the case of my Moto G7 Play and my spouse's old iPhone.
  - wl 5y ago
    I'm thinking more M2M/IoT applications.
mcny 5y ago
The article is from October. Has anything changed recently? https://archive.fo/ig59W https://archive.fo/ig59W » The new CDMA shutdown date is scheduled to take place in March 31, 2022.
throwaway74737 5y ago
Are there any updates on their GSM network? There are rumors that it will be also sunsetted, but I hope it will stay on. GSM is still useful because of its broad compatibility.
- wmf 5y ago
  3G is supposed to shut down in July but curiously 2G will live until December 2022.
  - kristopolous 5y ago
    And even then it's controversial. 1st gen IoT devices used 2G, even when 3G was a thing. Things like emergency response in cars (eCall in Europe) and other types of infrastructure level "call home" technologies that were intended to work for decades but now must be upgraded before their 2G networks go dark. There's a bunch of hard to access industrial sensors that have worked fine for 20 years but now crews have to be sent out to service and replace them because the network is going offline. Yes, that does sound like an expensive pain in the ass, you're right.
    - jeroenhd 5y ago
      I think it was foolish for manufacturers to design systems that are supposed to last decades while relying entirely on the technical implementation of a service provider without signing a contract for the entire lifetime for the device. I've seen it here with systems that rely on the voltage of phone lines to operate. They simply don't work with most digital telephony without additional hardware. The consumer and business service industry doesn't stand still for industrial and IoT applications and time and time again do companies building these things assume this time things will be different. Whether it's 2G networking or Windows XP, failure to plan and make the necessary deals for the entire lifetime of the device is what's really causing these devices to fail. If you can't make sure the necessary technology is available for the entire lifetime of your device (which can easily be 20 years or more for a car!) at least make your interface upgradable and well-documented.
  - 5y ago
hk1337 5y ago
Not surprising. T-Mobile has always been a GSM network, CDMA is what they inherited from Sprint.
- DebtDeflation 5y ago
  >CDMA is what they inherited from Sprint Furthermore, what they're specifically referring to here is Sprint's 3G network. Sprint's 4G LTE network is currently planned to be de-commissioned on June 30 2022, but that will almost certainly get pushed as well.
- acwan93 5y ago
  It seemed strange that T-Mobile would have a CDMA network, until you remembered that it came from Sprint. This seems like good news. I'm glad that starting with LTE all the carriers started agreeing on a single platform with SIM cards. Even though there are little nuances between each carrier, the fact that you can buy a single phone and have it work with the four (three now) major carriers is a big deal.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Not only are phones cross network compatible, with eSIM support, you can provision new service within minutes on any supported carrier, no physical SIM required.
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      Unless you're AT&T, then it takes a couple hours.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      Except that at least some spectrum owners won't let MVNOs provision eSIMs.
    - criddell 5y ago
      I just activated a new phone with T-Mobile and they basically insisted on a physical SIM card. When I asked why they said they can do an eSIM but then I wouldn't get 5G. Is that true? If not, then why are they pushing physical SIM cards so hard?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mikewarot 5y ago
I have this nasty feeling my 3G prepaid phone is going to stop working one day, and I'll somehow be expected to have known in advance. Can I get a 5g non-smart phone? I don't want internet, email, or anything other that text messages and phone calls. I'm already too attached to the internet, I DON'T want it in my pocket at all times.
- lathiat 5y ago
  Telstra in Australia already have their 3G shutdown planned for less than 3 years from now: https://www.telstra.com.au/business-enterprise/support/3g-service-closure https://www.telstra.com.au/business-enterprise/support/3g-se...
- joecool1029 5y ago
  Alcatel Go Flip 4 prob. I haven't used it but it's the only featurephone I can think of with US band support and it's under $100. EDIT: Also uh, this submission is about CDMA shutdown. T-Mobile's 2G GSM is still going to be around for at least another year. If you have an active SIM in something real old, it'll keep working until then. If you need a replacement SIM you'll likely be forced into an upgrade (as the newer SIM cards in their stores lack the 2G applet)
- msh 5y ago
  Not 5G AFAIK, but nokia produces a range of 4G non smartphones.
- ksec 5y ago
  >I have this nasty feeling my 3G prepaid Nearly all major market have plan or are in the discussion of shutting down 3G. Some are even discussing 2G as well. In 2018 the industry sort of expect everyone to shut down 3G and leave 2G for legacy support. Now it seems there are discussions they might as well shut down both 2G and 3G in the future to cut down operation cost. Given we expect 6G to land in 2030 I dont think that is too bad. But legacy devices like IoT will need lots of upgrade.
baloki 5y ago
An interesting side effect of these networks shutting down seems to be a lot of car manufacturers have been cheeping out for years and relying on 2G and 3G networks on even quite modern cars, then blaming the network providers when they stop working after being the network is shut off instead of offering upgrades to the telecommunications modules to a more modern standard.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Who will pay to upgrade their cars, and why? I know tractors have the same problem, but farmers are paying because they can log into each tractor and make decisions. Things like a field isn't yielding great so they can stop for lunch before getting the next load off... I personally don't see drivers upgrading their car, but maybe I'm wrong.
- coffeecat 5y ago
  The newest car I've ever owned was a 2005 model, so at the risk of sounding ridiculous: Why do cars have cellular radios built-in? Just for the GPS, or for actual communication?
  - imglorp 5y ago
    OnStar (GM vehicles), Acura Link, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar#Digital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar#Digital https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/acuralink-3g-discontinued-owners-get-1-500-discount https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/acuralink-3g-disco...
  - mdorazio 5y ago
    Telematics & remote interaction. Want to get remote diagnostics/problem notifications on your car, have emergency 911 service in the event of a crash, be able to unlock it from your phone, preheat it in the winter, precool it in the summer, get notified when your 16-year old child is driving over 70mph, get software updates for the ECUs in your car, enable remote charging notification & management, etc.? Cellular. Note that the HN crowd is extremely outside the mainstream in its collective view on these kinds of features. The actual mass market for cars embraces most of these even though HN tends to vilify attempts to add connected tech to vehicles.
taf2 5y ago
Is this the reason Twilio SIM cards will no longer support voice and sms stating December 1st?
xyzzy21 5y ago
Not surprising - Boost Mobile's primary market is poor folks generally and especially inner city minorities. "Getting a new phone" or "getting a fancy newly released phone" is less viable financially for this market so they are going to lag on abandoning older standards like CDMA because they are sticking to cheap phones in their budget.
- PopAlongKid 5y ago
  >Boost Mobile's primary market is poor folks generally and especially inner city minorities. Any support for that claim? My spouse and I used to be on Virgin Mobile, which closed and transferred us to Boost. We are certainly not in the category you mention, and I never got the feeling that either Virgin Mobile or Boost were just for poor, "especially inner city" people.
  - axiolite 5y ago
    > I never got the feeling that either Virgin Mobile or Boost were just for poor, "especially inner city" people. Virgin wasn't. Boost was. That's why they needed a second prepaid brand. Tons of evidence to this effect, you just have to go looking for it: "Boost’s strategy was to go after the young adult market in inner cities. The company tailored its advertising to this group by working with hiphop artists and action sports stars. It also used the slogan “Where you at?” in its marketing messages." https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/marek-s-take-boost-mobile-s-strange-rise-from-niche-mvno-to-billion-dollar-asset https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/marek-s-take-boost-m... T-Mobile is of largely the same ilk. Call up support and you'll be greeted by a rep with: "Yo. What's up?" Probably why T-Mobile always retained its namesake prepaid brand as well. In the old days pre-paid cell service was overwhelmingly for the poor, who might be late to pay. Respectable folks signed a 2-year contract and paid any price their provider told them they owed. I ended up on Boost Mobile in the early days by a complete fluke. It was lucky though, as the service was cheap, phones were heavily subsidized, coverage of the iDEN network was excellent everywhere I tried it (Sprint coverage was always horrible everywhere) with just some problems of network congestion.

134 points by provobro 5y ago

fomine3 5y ago

I surprised that US iPhone 13 still supports CDMA2000 EV-DO. Is it still worth to support?

dkdk8283 5y ago
Apple uses a Qualcomm baseband chip. They share the capabilities with other manufacturers, but Apple is working on their own baseband chip which they expect to ship in 2023.
- fomine3 5y ago
  But they don't have to implement CDMA2000 like other countries' models even though it uses Qualcomm chip.
  - sumtechguy 5y ago
    The chipset the qcom modem they are using probably supports it. Would depend on the firmware and sometimes a grounded pin if it is on or not. Much like FM radio in many of these devices is 'there' but not turned on/wired up. For the new chipset that Apple is making I seriously doubt they would support that standard, esp if the big telcos are turning it off. But it would depend on what sort of contract they have with the telco.
mdasen 5y ago
That's a hard question to give a definitive answer to. In many ways, the answer is "no". However, as with most things in tech, there are always edge cases. Sprint's network (which T-Mobile bought and is integrating into the T-Mobile network) never went fully VoLTE (voice over LTE) so if you had a phone that didn't support CDMA voice and you were on the Sprint network experience and you traveled to one of the rare areas where Sprint had coverage and T-Mobile didn't and there was no Sprint VoLTE available... The thing about wireless is that there's always some vocal person who is getting better service from something that is worse for 99.9% of people. Of course, 99.9% means that you have one person out of every thousand and if you're a wireless carrier with over 100M customers, that means 100,000 people might be annoyed by progress. In America where there's a huge rural population that expects all the amenities of big cities while the nearest neighbor is a quarter mile away, that can create some issues. Plus, it's not just the 3 national carriers. There are also smaller carriers like US Cellular whose VoLTE support is newer, Shentel (who T-Mobile has more recently bought and whose network will get integrated probably in 2022/2023), etc. Those smaller carriers may not have upgraded all of their network yet. If you're European, the idea that we chopped up our licensing into hundreds of tiny license areas might sound weird (734 cellular market areas for the initial licenses, different sizes/shapes for subsequent licensing). VoLTE interoperability has been a bit of a nightmare and so CDMA has offered a certain amount of fallback for roaming (though that situation has mostly gotten cleared up, partly because T-Mobile didn't really have legacy compatibility to fall back on). Finally, is it worth supporting? Ultimately, the support comes for free given that Qualcomm's X60 modem was going to support it whether Apple wanted that support or not. I think the iPhone 14 will support CDMA as well simply because Qualcomm's X65 modem will support it. I'm guessing that CDMA support will be dropped with the iPhone 15 when Apple moves to their own, in-house modems. Verizon is shutting down their CDMA network at the end of 2022. By the time the iPhone 15 launches in fall 2023, CDMA will be quite dead. But legacy things stick around for a long time because even when it's not used by 99.9% of people, there's always some that will vocally complain about change and regulators don't like the idea of customer equipment being rendered useless.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Thanks. Licensing for tiny areas looks interesting.
- toast0 5y ago
  > By the time the iPhone 15 launches in fall 2023, CDMA will be quite dead. Perhaps in the US, but CDMA is used elsewhere too. In several countries in the recent past, fixed wireless CDMA operators (intended for home phone lines) started operating mobile handsets. Those places may not be on the upgrade path to LTE anytime soon, because of expense.
  - mdasen 5y ago
    This is one of those "but actually" things that always happens (and why I can't give a straight answer and why I should have hedged that statement as well). The question was about the US and Apple and I responded about the US and Apple, but I should have know I'd get a "but actually" if I didn't hedge everything. I don't know what country/network you're talking about, but it looks like Uzbekistan might be the only country that's valid for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks Beeline Armenia doesn't have a shutdown date, they also have GSM/UMTS/LTE service and their CDMA network is at 450MHz which the iPhone has never supported. MPT has an LTE service. That leaves Perfectum Mobile in Uzbekistan which looks like it's still heavy in CDMA. Uzmobile also seems to run CDMA at 450MHz, but again the iPhone never supported that. Going through Perfectum's website and looking at their suitable models feels like growing Verizon and Sprint's website from years past. Yea, I should have hedged further and said "in the US and for Apple's purposes." Really though, I can only find Uzbekistan as an exception. And I could see Uzbekistan lingering on CDMA. Are there more? I'm not even saying that old tech doesn't linger. Part of it is that CDMA wasn't popular in most of the world. GSM support will stick around longer because it was so popular. Most places that had CDMA networks have replaced them. CDMA kinda became a dead-end technology as Qualcomm's UMB evolution didn't happen - once Verizon chose LTE, there wasn't much of a point. Honestly, it would have been cool if you'd added information about countries and networks where CDMA might stick around. I'd love interesting information - I literally went around looking for the information not included in your comment. Without that information, it just feels like "I know you were talking about Apple and the US, but actually..."
agent86 5y ago
This likely mirrors what happened when we moved from analog to digital. CDMA versions of phones like the Motorola v60 came with pull out antennas and were still capable of latching on to analog signals. It would drain the battery pretty quickly, but it worked. Most people, most of the time, were riding digital signals and their phones never saw analog, but yet it was still there. A few things came into play: 1) The CDMA chipset in the phone had analog capability, so it was basically "free" to utilize. 2) Analog signal still worked well in rural/mountainous areas where it carried better. 3) It was still in active use with regional carriers they had roaming agreements with. My guess is that similar conditions are why it is still in play in today's phones.
csomar 5y ago
Lots of people buy their phones in the USA through relatives and then ship them to their own country. That might have prompted Apple to support stuff that they no longer need in the US?

sharmin123 5y ago

Instagram Phishing Attack: Instagram Hack Steps and Shields: https://www.hackerslist.co/instagram-phishing-attack-instagram-hack-steps-and-shields/ https://www.hackerslist.co/instagram-phishing-attack-instagr...

wl 5y ago

It seems that a lot of companies have delayed their 3G sunset replacement plans until the last minute and then supply chain shortages pushed them over the deadline.

maxerickson 5y ago
Are there stock shortages in the types of phones Boost would be offering as replacements for 3G phones? I wouldn't think so, but who knows.
- PopAlongKid 5y ago
  Boost is only offering replacement SIM cards, not phones, at least in the case of my Moto G7 Play and my spouse's old iPhone.
- wl 5y ago
  I'm thinking more M2M/IoT applications.

mcny 5y ago

The article is from October. Has anything changed recently? https://archive.fo/ig59W https://archive.fo/ig59W » The new CDMA shutdown date is scheduled to take place in March 31, 2022.

throwaway74737 5y ago

Are there any updates on their GSM network? There are rumors that it will be also sunsetted, but I hope it will stay on. GSM is still useful because of its broad compatibility.

wmf 5y ago
3G is supposed to shut down in July but curiously 2G will live until December 2022.
- kristopolous 5y ago
  And even then it's controversial. 1st gen IoT devices used 2G, even when 3G was a thing. Things like emergency response in cars (eCall in Europe) and other types of infrastructure level "call home" technologies that were intended to work for decades but now must be upgraded before their 2G networks go dark. There's a bunch of hard to access industrial sensors that have worked fine for 20 years but now crews have to be sent out to service and replace them because the network is going offline. Yes, that does sound like an expensive pain in the ass, you're right.
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    I think it was foolish for manufacturers to design systems that are supposed to last decades while relying entirely on the technical implementation of a service provider without signing a contract for the entire lifetime for the device. I've seen it here with systems that rely on the voltage of phone lines to operate. They simply don't work with most digital telephony without additional hardware. The consumer and business service industry doesn't stand still for industrial and IoT applications and time and time again do companies building these things assume this time things will be different. Whether it's 2G networking or Windows XP, failure to plan and make the necessary deals for the entire lifetime of the device is what's really causing these devices to fail. If you can't make sure the necessary technology is available for the entire lifetime of your device (which can easily be 20 years or more for a car!) at least make your interface upgradable and well-documented.
- 5y ago

hk1337 5y ago

Not surprising. T-Mobile has always been a GSM network, CDMA is what they inherited from Sprint.

DebtDeflation 5y ago
>CDMA is what they inherited from Sprint Furthermore, what they're specifically referring to here is Sprint's 3G network. Sprint's 4G LTE network is currently planned to be de-commissioned on June 30 2022, but that will almost certainly get pushed as well.
acwan93 5y ago
It seemed strange that T-Mobile would have a CDMA network, until you remembered that it came from Sprint. This seems like good news. I'm glad that starting with LTE all the carriers started agreeing on a single platform with SIM cards. Even though there are little nuances between each carrier, the fact that you can buy a single phone and have it work with the four (three now) major carriers is a big deal.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Not only are phones cross network compatible, with eSIM support, you can provision new service within minutes on any supported carrier, no physical SIM required.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    Unless you're AT&T, then it takes a couple hours.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    Except that at least some spectrum owners won't let MVNOs provision eSIMs.
  - criddell 5y ago
    I just activated a new phone with T-Mobile and they basically insisted on a physical SIM card. When I asked why they said they can do an eSIM but then I wouldn't get 5G. Is that true? If not, then why are they pushing physical SIM cards so hard?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mikewarot 5y ago

I have this nasty feeling my 3G prepaid phone is going to stop working one day, and I'll somehow be expected to have known in advance. Can I get a 5g non-smart phone? I don't want internet, email, or anything other that text messages and phone calls. I'm already too attached to the internet, I DON'T want it in my pocket at all times.

lathiat 5y ago
Telstra in Australia already have their 3G shutdown planned for less than 3 years from now: https://www.telstra.com.au/business-enterprise/support/3g-service-closure https://www.telstra.com.au/business-enterprise/support/3g-se...
joecool1029 5y ago
Alcatel Go Flip 4 prob. I haven't used it but it's the only featurephone I can think of with US band support and it's under $100. EDIT: Also uh, this submission is about CDMA shutdown. T-Mobile's 2G GSM is still going to be around for at least another year. If you have an active SIM in something real old, it'll keep working until then. If you need a replacement SIM you'll likely be forced into an upgrade (as the newer SIM cards in their stores lack the 2G applet)
msh 5y ago
Not 5G AFAIK, but nokia produces a range of 4G non smartphones.
ksec 5y ago
>I have this nasty feeling my 3G prepaid Nearly all major market have plan or are in the discussion of shutting down 3G. Some are even discussing 2G as well. In 2018 the industry sort of expect everyone to shut down 3G and leave 2G for legacy support. Now it seems there are discussions they might as well shut down both 2G and 3G in the future to cut down operation cost. Given we expect 6G to land in 2030 I dont think that is too bad. But legacy devices like IoT will need lots of upgrade.

baloki 5y ago

An interesting side effect of these networks shutting down seems to be a lot of car manufacturers have been cheeping out for years and relying on 2G and 3G networks on even quite modern cars, then blaming the network providers when they stop working after being the network is shut off instead of offering upgrades to the telecommunications modules to a more modern standard.

bluGill 5y ago
Who will pay to upgrade their cars, and why? I know tractors have the same problem, but farmers are paying because they can log into each tractor and make decisions. Things like a field isn't yielding great so they can stop for lunch before getting the next load off... I personally don't see drivers upgrading their car, but maybe I'm wrong.
coffeecat 5y ago
The newest car I've ever owned was a 2005 model, so at the risk of sounding ridiculous: Why do cars have cellular radios built-in? Just for the GPS, or for actual communication?
- imglorp 5y ago
  OnStar (GM vehicles), Acura Link, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar#Digital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar#Digital https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/acuralink-3g-discontinued-owners-get-1-500-discount https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/acuralink-3g-disco...
- mdorazio 5y ago
  Telematics & remote interaction. Want to get remote diagnostics/problem notifications on your car, have emergency 911 service in the event of a crash, be able to unlock it from your phone, preheat it in the winter, precool it in the summer, get notified when your 16-year old child is driving over 70mph, get software updates for the ECUs in your car, enable remote charging notification & management, etc.? Cellular. Note that the HN crowd is extremely outside the mainstream in its collective view on these kinds of features. The actual mass market for cars embraces most of these even though HN tends to vilify attempts to add connected tech to vehicles.

taf2 5y ago

Is this the reason Twilio SIM cards will no longer support voice and sms stating December 1st?

xyzzy21 5y ago

Not surprising - Boost Mobile's primary market is poor folks generally and especially inner city minorities. "Getting a new phone" or "getting a fancy newly released phone" is less viable financially for this market so they are going to lag on abandoning older standards like CDMA because they are sticking to cheap phones in their budget.

PopAlongKid 5y ago
>Boost Mobile's primary market is poor folks generally and especially inner city minorities. Any support for that claim? My spouse and I used to be on Virgin Mobile, which closed and transferred us to Boost. We are certainly not in the category you mention, and I never got the feeling that either Virgin Mobile or Boost were just for poor, "especially inner city" people.
- axiolite 5y ago
  > I never got the feeling that either Virgin Mobile or Boost were just for poor, "especially inner city" people. Virgin wasn't. Boost was. That's why they needed a second prepaid brand. Tons of evidence to this effect, you just have to go looking for it: "Boost’s strategy was to go after the young adult market in inner cities. The company tailored its advertising to this group by working with hiphop artists and action sports stars. It also used the slogan “Where you at?” in its marketing messages." https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/marek-s-take-boost-mobile-s-strange-rise-from-niche-mvno-to-billion-dollar-asset https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/marek-s-take-boost-m... T-Mobile is of largely the same ilk. Call up support and you'll be greeted by a rep with: "Yo. What's up?" Probably why T-Mobile always retained its namesake prepaid brand as well. In the old days pre-paid cell service was overwhelmingly for the poor, who might be late to pay. Respectable folks signed a 2-year contract and paid any price their provider told them they owed. I ended up on Boost Mobile in the early days by a complete fluke. It was lucky though, as the service was cheap, phones were heavily subsidized, coverage of the iDEN network was excellent everywhere I tried it (Sprint coverage was always horrible everywhere) with just some problems of network congestion.