5 ms·

For me, I see: - No OLED screen - Limited RAM - No ECC option - Fixed NVMe of a small size - Can't have more than 1 NVMe for raid1 - No amd64 core for leg

by csdvrx 5y ago

For me, I see: - No OLED screen - Limited RAM - No ECC option - Fixed NVMe of a small size - Can't have more than 1 NVMe for raid1 - No amd64 core for legacy software It has advantages for some people, but not for me.

shepherdjerred 5y ago
You have a very niche set of requirements there; few others care about the things you listed.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > You have a very niche set of requirements there; few others care about the things you listed. What can I say, I have a refined palate for exquisite computers! (but I'm surprised that on Hacker News of all places, my tastes are considered exotic!) At the moment I have a thinkpad P1 Gen 3 as my main computer (Xeon, 64Gb of ECC, multiple 2Tb NVMe in RAID, OLED...) but I'll ditch it in a second if I can get an AMD equivalent (and preferably 128G of ECC).
  - vehemenz 5y ago
    Do you use the eraserhead on the Thinkpad? I ask because most users (including here) probably use the touchpad, and non-Mac touchpads are 10+ years behind and borderline unusable.
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      Actually, most of the time I don't, but the Lenovo trackpad is great. I've tried a mac (because I like to keep my options opened) but I have found the trackpad to be only slightly better (mostly bigger), while the lack of trackpoint ("eraserhead") was painful
      - vehemenz 5y ago
        The trackpoint is nice once you figure out an acceleration curve that works for you. I am a huge fan. It would be pretty amazing if that was available on Macs, but honestly, the touchpad is good enough that it's probably not needed (unlike most other laptops).
    - unmole 5y ago
      > non-Mac touchpads are 10+ years behind and borderline unusable People keep saying this but somehow the rest of the world manages to use their touchpads just fine.
      - fomine3 5y ago
        Others are now great but Apple's trackpad is still the best. Is there any other laptop trackpad that support click everywhere like Apple's Force Touch?
        opless 5y ago
        I'm not sure about force touch, but my windows running Lenovo x230's touch pad is very good. Just a little different from the apple ones I use but really quite usable. Trouble with PCs is you're comparing Apple kit with anything from cheap consumer gear by Asus, Dell, and HP with hilarious results. Whilst they're all running similar chipsets the materials used are all very different. If fact do any laptops have the glassy feel of Mac trackpads? I know if I were going from my Lenovo and using a Mac, I'd have very negative feelings about the Mac, until I had three months continuous usage under my belt.
      - vehemenz 5y ago
        I suppose if I thought all touchpads were supposed to be scratchy, small, and imprecise, then I would manage just fine too—by plugging in a mouse.
temptemptemp111 5y ago
You have good taste!
qvrjuec 5y ago
Is OLED really great for computer use? I would imagine all of the static UI would make burn-in an issue
- csdvrx 5y ago
  I love working at night. I'm flexible on every requirement but OLED for my non travel laptop. No OLED = won't buy.
  - danlugo92 5y ago
    But the burn in...? You haven't gotten it? Or do you swap out device/screen when it happens?
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      IDGAF about burnin. I care about working at night, and the $ benefits of my extra productivity are greater than hardware replacement costs. Also I have worldwide next day onsite warranty (the #1 reason I like Lenovo!), so if or when somethings becomes a problem, it will be solved quickly without even going to a repairshop let alone leaving my laptop there!!
      - danlugo92 5y ago
        If that warranty really works as advertised.. sounds like a great situation, and you get the OLED. OLED is great yeah.
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    How long have you had it? I want one but I am scared of burn in. That's for a TV and a monitor
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      About 6 months. I use Windows 11 with no "fixed element" (ex: hidden taskbar, each app is in fullscreen) which may mitigate such issues. I've checked recently with a pixelcheck tool and I couldn't see any alteration, but we'll see in a year or two!
morpheuskafka 5y ago
The RAM is annoying but its a tradeoff for having it integrated into and shared by the CPU/GPU. macOS hasn't supported RAID boot for some years, but internally buying a larger storage configuration does get you more physical flash chips and increased bandwidth. And Apple has Rosetta 2 translation which is extremely good and many applications beat Intel performance even when running translated. Having an Intel core would have defeated the cost and performance benefits of M1 and would make the cooling, power supply, etc. more expensive and larger.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Having an Intel core would have defeated the cost and performance benefits of M1 and would make the cooling, power supply, etc. more expensive and larger Not as an optional core that could be powered on when necessary.
  - usefulcat 5y ago
    From what I’ve heard, translated apps are nearly as fast as native. Even if not, the number of apps that need to be translated will only decrease with time. I guess I have a hard time seeing how a dedicated full x64 core could possibly be a good use of transistors compared to the alternatives (more arm cores, more cache, fewer transistors/lower cost, lower power usage, etc).
  - morpheuskafka 5y ago
    The physical footprint of PSU and cooling would still have to be larger to accommodate the increased max wattage/heat, whether the chip is on at any given time or not. The chip would also need its own memory or some interface to access the main memory, which is built into the M1 chip. And, there would be a ton of firmware and microcode updates and stuff to keep track of and secure which was one reason they wanted to have their own chips.
user-the-name 5y ago
Why would you waste all that money on an amd64 core when Rosetta runs x86-64 code faster?
- beebeepka 5y ago
  Faster than what?
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Than any previous x86-64 core in a Mac.
    - beebeepka 5y ago
      Not much of an achievement, tbh
      - user-the-name 5y ago
        That is a ridiculous thing to say.
        beebeepka 5y ago
        Not really. Pre arm macbooks are kind of slow due to their CPUs throttling. Surely that shouldn't me news to you
        user-the-name 5y ago
        They are designed for a specific thermal and power profile. So is the M1. This is not something that is changing. It is not relevant to the current discussion in any way whatsoever.

by csdvrx 5y ago

shepherdjerred 5y ago

You have a very niche set of requirements there; few others care about the things you listed.

csdvrx 5y ago
> You have a very niche set of requirements there; few others care about the things you listed. What can I say, I have a refined palate for exquisite computers! (but I'm surprised that on Hacker News of all places, my tastes are considered exotic!) At the moment I have a thinkpad P1 Gen 3 as my main computer (Xeon, 64Gb of ECC, multiple 2Tb NVMe in RAID, OLED...) but I'll ditch it in a second if I can get an AMD equivalent (and preferably 128G of ECC).
- vehemenz 5y ago
  Do you use the eraserhead on the Thinkpad? I ask because most users (including here) probably use the touchpad, and non-Mac touchpads are 10+ years behind and borderline unusable.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    Actually, most of the time I don't, but the Lenovo trackpad is great. I've tried a mac (because I like to keep my options opened) but I have found the trackpad to be only slightly better (mostly bigger), while the lack of trackpoint ("eraserhead") was painful
    - vehemenz 5y ago
      The trackpoint is nice once you figure out an acceleration curve that works for you. I am a huge fan. It would be pretty amazing if that was available on Macs, but honestly, the touchpad is good enough that it's probably not needed (unlike most other laptops).
  - unmole 5y ago
    > non-Mac touchpads are 10+ years behind and borderline unusable People keep saying this but somehow the rest of the world manages to use their touchpads just fine.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Others are now great but Apple's trackpad is still the best. Is there any other laptop trackpad that support click everywhere like Apple's Force Touch?
      - opless 5y ago
        I'm not sure about force touch, but my windows running Lenovo x230's touch pad is very good. Just a little different from the apple ones I use but really quite usable. Trouble with PCs is you're comparing Apple kit with anything from cheap consumer gear by Asus, Dell, and HP with hilarious results. Whilst they're all running similar chipsets the materials used are all very different. If fact do any laptops have the glassy feel of Mac trackpads? I know if I were going from my Lenovo and using a Mac, I'd have very negative feelings about the Mac, until I had three months continuous usage under my belt.
    - vehemenz 5y ago
      I suppose if I thought all touchpads were supposed to be scratchy, small, and imprecise, then I would manage just fine too—by plugging in a mouse.

temptemptemp111 5y ago

You have good taste!

qvrjuec 5y ago

Is OLED really great for computer use? I would imagine all of the static UI would make burn-in an issue

csdvrx 5y ago
I love working at night. I'm flexible on every requirement but OLED for my non travel laptop. No OLED = won't buy.
- danlugo92 5y ago
  But the burn in...? You haven't gotten it? Or do you swap out device/screen when it happens?
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    IDGAF about burnin. I care about working at night, and the $ benefits of my extra productivity are greater than hardware replacement costs. Also I have worldwide next day onsite warranty (the #1 reason I like Lenovo!), so if or when somethings becomes a problem, it will be solved quickly without even going to a repairshop let alone leaving my laptop there!!
    - danlugo92 5y ago
      If that warranty really works as advertised.. sounds like a great situation, and you get the OLED. OLED is great yeah.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  How long have you had it? I want one but I am scared of burn in. That's for a TV and a monitor
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    About 6 months. I use Windows 11 with no "fixed element" (ex: hidden taskbar, each app is in fullscreen) which may mitigate such issues. I've checked recently with a pixelcheck tool and I couldn't see any alteration, but we'll see in a year or two!

morpheuskafka 5y ago

The RAM is annoying but its a tradeoff for having it integrated into and shared by the CPU/GPU. macOS hasn't supported RAID boot for some years, but internally buying a larger storage configuration does get you more physical flash chips and increased bandwidth. And Apple has Rosetta 2 translation which is extremely good and many applications beat Intel performance even when running translated. Having an Intel core would have defeated the cost and performance benefits of M1 and would make the cooling, power supply, etc. more expensive and larger.

csdvrx 5y ago
> Having an Intel core would have defeated the cost and performance benefits of M1 and would make the cooling, power supply, etc. more expensive and larger Not as an optional core that could be powered on when necessary.
- usefulcat 5y ago
  From what I’ve heard, translated apps are nearly as fast as native. Even if not, the number of apps that need to be translated will only decrease with time. I guess I have a hard time seeing how a dedicated full x64 core could possibly be a good use of transistors compared to the alternatives (more arm cores, more cache, fewer transistors/lower cost, lower power usage, etc).
- morpheuskafka 5y ago
  The physical footprint of PSU and cooling would still have to be larger to accommodate the increased max wattage/heat, whether the chip is on at any given time or not. The chip would also need its own memory or some interface to access the main memory, which is built into the M1 chip. And, there would be a ton of firmware and microcode updates and stuff to keep track of and secure which was one reason they wanted to have their own chips.

user-the-name 5y ago

Why would you waste all that money on an amd64 core when Rosetta runs x86-64 code faster?

beebeepka 5y ago
Faster than what?
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Than any previous x86-64 core in a Mac.
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    Not much of an achievement, tbh
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      That is a ridiculous thing to say.
      - beebeepka 5y ago
        Not really. Pre arm macbooks are kind of slow due to their CPUs throttling. Surely that shouldn't me news to you
        user-the-name 5y ago
        They are designed for a specific thermal and power profile. So is the M1. This is not something that is changing. It is not relevant to the current discussion in any way whatsoever.