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GP: > This situation seems a lot like two years ago with the CDC saying "there are no confirmed cases in the US" P: > I would be very careful not to fall into

GP: > This situation seems a lot like two years ago with the CDC saying "there are no confirmed cases in the US" P: > I would be very careful not to fall into paranoia. It's easy and destructive. Two years ago, paranoia might have helped. (Although considering how many places are now starting to abandon the zero-COVID goal, it might not have worked forever).

sovietmudkipz 5y ago
My mom was paranoid because she’s what I (lovingly) dub a ‘doom cult Christian’ because she is using the foretold apocalypse as an excuse to get into ‘prepping’ as a hobby. She got into it in earnest about 4 years ago, and sends me and my siblings low hundred or thousands view YouTube videos saying all kinds of crazy stuff with a biblical spin. I think COVID was a sign for her that she’s on the right path. Honestly, I haven’t dug in too greatly. I recently heard that most Christian groups are run by troll farms. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was caught in one of these schemes.
b112 5y ago
Zero covid? You mean eliminate it? That was never a goal, anywhere.
- mattrighetti 5y ago
  Looks like many people think that is the goal now. I come from a place that has a lot of vaccinated people, ICUs have been at 4% since may and still there is an increase in restrictions because of a recent uptake in cases which don't result in hospitalisation since a lot of people, as I said, took the vaccine.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    It depends on the populations. School, colder weather and the resumption of winter sports like basketball have contributed to a spike in many areas. Many are breakthrough cases. My son’s school, which has had 2 cases through early November, had 20% of the student body positive.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    There isn't a lot of information on how the vaccines impact the contagion rates, and people are really afraid of numbers growing so quickly that ICUs go from mostly empty into overflowing again without time to react. A lot of people sick but well enough that they don't need a hospital means a lot of people possibly transmitting the disease. There is a point on the other extreme too, in that the people that get into an ICU overwhelmingly refused to vaccinate, and it isn't fair to disrupt the entire society because of them. But well, the pandemics is full of unfair situations, and refusing treatment to people with unrelated diseases because ICUs are full isn't fair either. Everybody is in a crazy game of balancing things the best possible way without full information.
- throwhauser 5y ago
  "Why China is still trying to achieve zero Covid": https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59257496 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59257496 "Why has Australia switched tack on Covid zero?": https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58406526 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58406526 "‘Zero Covid’ strategies are being abandoned as the highly infectious delta variant dominates": https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/zero-covid-strategies-abandoned-in-the-face-of-the-delta-variant.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/zero-covid-strategies-abando... ("New Zealand has become the latest country to abandon a zero Covid strategy"... "This zero Covid strategy, also employed by the likes of China and Taiwan...")
  - b112 5y ago
    Well in Canada, zero covid was never a goal. The only goal was to keep spread low enough, so that hospitals could cope, and buy some time until vaccines came out. How could any sane person think zero covid was possible?? Let's say you manage to vaccinate 100% of Canada. Great. Now you .. what? Close the borders forever? And closing means no truckers, pilots entering?? And on top of that, there is always a resoviour in the wild... The news literally makes stuff up these days. What sane government would think covid would vanish? Quebec's current plan is to let it flow through the population now. If you aren't vaccinated, that's on you. If you are, well, we're done with lockdowns. We've done all we can. And so kids now wear no masks on school. https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/end-of-mask-mandate-in-quebec-high-school-classes-leaves-many-a-bit-puzzled https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/end-of-mask-mand... Of course, no one is really puzzled, the news needs a story.
    - reginold 5y ago
      Not sure what you're getting at. You said zero covid was never a goal anywhere. And the above poster showed you were wrong.
      - b112 5y ago
        Every time I listened to live conferences with the prime minster, or a premier, there was never, ever any talk of zero covid. The local media however, seemed to think it was a goal. Thus, I am often hesitant to accept the media blathering on about such nonsense, and generally suspect hyped and click baitish behaviour. I suppose a few crazy places thought this was possible, although I cannot imagine why, so I suppose I am wrong with my all encompassing statement.
SantalBlush 5y ago
>Two years ago, paranoia might have helped. That's an easy statement to make two years later. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, we know a lot of things that would have helped. When you make evidence-based decisions, you are going to get some things wrong. The only way around that is to gather more evidence, and that takes time (and loads of money.)
- throwhauser 5y ago
  > The only way around that is to gather more evidence... That begs the question as to whether an evidence-based approach is the right approach in all circumstances. Another way around it is to not fully rely on an evidence-based approach, and take precautions before the evidence comes in. In some circumstances (e.g. rapid spread of an poorly understood disease) waiting for an evidence-based decision before taking precautions might be too slow.
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    Finding that the disease is spreading rapidly and taking precautions as a result is making an evidence-based decision. You seem to be repeating my point here. The issue is that they really didn't know how rapidly it was spreading at the beginning.

sovietmudkipz 5y ago

My mom was paranoid because she’s what I (lovingly) dub a ‘doom cult Christian’ because she is using the foretold apocalypse as an excuse to get into ‘prepping’ as a hobby. She got into it in earnest about 4 years ago, and sends me and my siblings low hundred or thousands view YouTube videos saying all kinds of crazy stuff with a biblical spin. I think COVID was a sign for her that she’s on the right path. Honestly, I haven’t dug in too greatly. I recently heard that most Christian groups are run by troll farms. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was caught in one of these schemes.

b112 5y ago

Zero covid? You mean eliminate it? That was never a goal, anywhere.

mattrighetti 5y ago
Looks like many people think that is the goal now. I come from a place that has a lot of vaccinated people, ICUs have been at 4% since may and still there is an increase in restrictions because of a recent uptake in cases which don't result in hospitalisation since a lot of people, as I said, took the vaccine.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  It depends on the populations. School, colder weather and the resumption of winter sports like basketball have contributed to a spike in many areas. Many are breakthrough cases. My son’s school, which has had 2 cases through early November, had 20% of the student body positive.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  There isn't a lot of information on how the vaccines impact the contagion rates, and people are really afraid of numbers growing so quickly that ICUs go from mostly empty into overflowing again without time to react. A lot of people sick but well enough that they don't need a hospital means a lot of people possibly transmitting the disease. There is a point on the other extreme too, in that the people that get into an ICU overwhelmingly refused to vaccinate, and it isn't fair to disrupt the entire society because of them. But well, the pandemics is full of unfair situations, and refusing treatment to people with unrelated diseases because ICUs are full isn't fair either. Everybody is in a crazy game of balancing things the best possible way without full information.
throwhauser 5y ago
"Why China is still trying to achieve zero Covid": https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59257496 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59257496 "Why has Australia switched tack on Covid zero?": https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58406526 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58406526 "‘Zero Covid’ strategies are being abandoned as the highly infectious delta variant dominates": https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/zero-covid-strategies-abandoned-in-the-face-of-the-delta-variant.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/zero-covid-strategies-abando... ("New Zealand has become the latest country to abandon a zero Covid strategy"... "This zero Covid strategy, also employed by the likes of China and Taiwan...")
- b112 5y ago
  Well in Canada, zero covid was never a goal. The only goal was to keep spread low enough, so that hospitals could cope, and buy some time until vaccines came out. How could any sane person think zero covid was possible?? Let's say you manage to vaccinate 100% of Canada. Great. Now you .. what? Close the borders forever? And closing means no truckers, pilots entering?? And on top of that, there is always a resoviour in the wild... The news literally makes stuff up these days. What sane government would think covid would vanish? Quebec's current plan is to let it flow through the population now. If you aren't vaccinated, that's on you. If you are, well, we're done with lockdowns. We've done all we can. And so kids now wear no masks on school. https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/end-of-mask-mandate-in-quebec-high-school-classes-leaves-many-a-bit-puzzled https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/end-of-mask-mand... Of course, no one is really puzzled, the news needs a story.
  - reginold 5y ago
    Not sure what you're getting at. You said zero covid was never a goal anywhere. And the above poster showed you were wrong.
    - b112 5y ago
      Every time I listened to live conferences with the prime minster, or a premier, there was never, ever any talk of zero covid. The local media however, seemed to think it was a goal. Thus, I am often hesitant to accept the media blathering on about such nonsense, and generally suspect hyped and click baitish behaviour. I suppose a few crazy places thought this was possible, although I cannot imagine why, so I suppose I am wrong with my all encompassing statement.

SantalBlush 5y ago

>Two years ago, paranoia might have helped. That's an easy statement to make two years later. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, we know a lot of things that would have helped. When you make evidence-based decisions, you are going to get some things wrong. The only way around that is to gather more evidence, and that takes time (and loads of money.)

throwhauser 5y ago
> The only way around that is to gather more evidence... That begs the question as to whether an evidence-based approach is the right approach in all circumstances. Another way around it is to not fully rely on an evidence-based approach, and take precautions before the evidence comes in. In some circumstances (e.g. rapid spread of an poorly understood disease) waiting for an evidence-based decision before taking precautions might be too slow.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  Finding that the disease is spreading rapidly and taking precautions as a result is making an evidence-based decision. You seem to be repeating my point here. The issue is that they really didn't know how rapidly it was spreading at the beginning.