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Wouldn't stealing all the foreign assets of Venezuela by US and UK also affect the Venezuela economy?

simonh 5y ago
Freezing, not stealing, because the chances those assets would be used for the actual benefit of Venezuelans is pretty much zero. They will be returned when Venezuela has a legitimate government.
- mysecretaccount 5y ago
  This is propaganda. The US sanctioned Venezuela to because they do not want anyone in their sphere of influence nationalizing important export industries like oil.
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  Very rightous of the US. Getting to decide who does and doesn't get to self govern.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Opposing parties choose to come to the US for that very reason. They trust the US courts to uphold contracts more justly relative to other jurisdictions. The US’s trust is it’s most important asset.
- CyanBird 5y ago
  > They will be returned when Venezuela has a legitimate government. ??? They have had all this time, it is them who do abroad visits and diplomacy with CARICOM It is only anglosphere the ones that don't want to recognize Venezuela
rsj_hn 5y ago
> Wouldn't stealing all the foreign assets of Venezuela by US and UK also affect the Venezuela economy? There are a number of things wrong with this statement. 1. Timing is off. The U.S. didn't freeze Venezuelan assets until 2019 after Chavez died and the economy had already collapsed. 2. $342 Million in cash was frozen and 1.1. million barrels of oil were seized, the rationale being that this was a small dent to offset the amount of Western assets that Venezuela nationalized without compensation. 3. For years before the US responded, Venezuela nationalized foreign investment in its oil industry, gold mining, agriculture, telecomm, banking, auto manufacturing, paper products, Satellite communication, pharmaceuticals, and many other industries - most seized without compensation. Prior to the 2019 action, the US basically left foreign investors without recourse, as they had to file lawsuits in courts in order to try to obtain compensation. The value of the foreign assets seized by Venezuela far exceeds the value of Venezuelan foreign holdings seized in response. The real problem for Venezuela is the flight of human capital by those with skills. Venezuela lacks the skilled workers to operate the industries it has nationalized, which is part of the reason for the economic collapse - the other part being simply the usual effect of socialism on reducing productivity due to the breakdown of the price-system.
- mysecretaccount 5y ago
  > The value of the foreign assets seized by Venezuela far exceeds the value of Venezuelan foreign holdings seized in response. This sounds wrong. Do you have a source?
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Why does it sound wrong? Just off the top of my head (not an exhaustive list), Venezuela was ordered to pay $1.6 Billion to compensate Exxon in 2007[1] (and that doesn't include Conoco-Phillips or other oil and gas companies). Of course that payment was never made, as Venezuela paid only $255 million. But that's just one case. Solely in Oil and Gas, Venezuela nationalized $30 Billion worth of investment in 2007, and paid out only $1 Billion.[3] You can read more in this 2012 summary[3] Of course there were many more nationalizations after 2012, e.g. the GM plant they seized in 2017[4]. You can do your own googling for more fun about everthing from DishTV to telecom equipment, gold mines, etc. Venezuela seized virtually all foreign investment in the country. They owe the international community a huge debt. The diversion of those 4 tanker ships and freezing a couple hundred million is just the first of many, many payments that Venezuela needs to make. See also https://tennesseestar.com/2020/01/14/eight-industries-venezuela-nationalized-besides-oil/ https://tennesseestar.com/2020/01/14/eight-industries-venezu... [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxon/venezuela-ordered-to-pay-exxon-1-6-billion-for-nationalization-idUSKCN0HY20720141010 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxon/venezuela... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxonmobil-idUSTRE8010MC20120102 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxonmobil-idUS... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations/factbox-venezuelas-nationalizations-under-chavez-idUSBRE89701X20121008 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nation... [4] https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/20/news/gm-venezuela-plant-seized/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/20/news/gm-venezuela-plant-sei...
    - crate_barre 5y ago
      Why is Venezuela using the dollar? Why’s it trying to use Bitcoin now? I don’t think they have a clue what to do, might be the simplest explanation.

Freezing, not stealing, because the chances those assets would be used for the actual benefit of Venezuelans is pretty much zero. They will be returned when Venezuela has a legitimate government.

mysecretaccount 5y ago
This is propaganda. The US sanctioned Venezuela to because they do not want anyone in their sphere of influence nationalizing important export industries like oil.
aunty_helen 5y ago
Very rightous of the US. Getting to decide who does and doesn't get to self govern.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Opposing parties choose to come to the US for that very reason. They trust the US courts to uphold contracts more justly relative to other jurisdictions. The US’s trust is it’s most important asset.
CyanBird 5y ago
> They will be returned when Venezuela has a legitimate government. ??? They have had all this time, it is them who do abroad visits and diplomacy with CARICOM It is only anglosphere the ones that don't want to recognize Venezuela

rsj_hn 5y ago

> Wouldn't stealing all the foreign assets of Venezuela by US and UK also affect the Venezuela economy? There are a number of things wrong with this statement. 1. Timing is off. The U.S. didn't freeze Venezuelan assets until 2019 after Chavez died and the economy had already collapsed. 2. $342 Million in cash was frozen and 1.1. million barrels of oil were seized, the rationale being that this was a small dent to offset the amount of Western assets that Venezuela nationalized without compensation. 3. For years before the US responded, Venezuela nationalized foreign investment in its oil industry, gold mining, agriculture, telecomm, banking, auto manufacturing, paper products, Satellite communication, pharmaceuticals, and many other industries - most seized without compensation. Prior to the 2019 action, the US basically left foreign investors without recourse, as they had to file lawsuits in courts in order to try to obtain compensation. The value of the foreign assets seized by Venezuela far exceeds the value of Venezuelan foreign holdings seized in response. The real problem for Venezuela is the flight of human capital by those with skills. Venezuela lacks the skilled workers to operate the industries it has nationalized, which is part of the reason for the economic collapse - the other part being simply the usual effect of socialism on reducing productivity due to the breakdown of the price-system.

mysecretaccount 5y ago
> The value of the foreign assets seized by Venezuela far exceeds the value of Venezuelan foreign holdings seized in response. This sounds wrong. Do you have a source?
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Why does it sound wrong? Just off the top of my head (not an exhaustive list), Venezuela was ordered to pay $1.6 Billion to compensate Exxon in 2007[1] (and that doesn't include Conoco-Phillips or other oil and gas companies). Of course that payment was never made, as Venezuela paid only $255 million. But that's just one case. Solely in Oil and Gas, Venezuela nationalized $30 Billion worth of investment in 2007, and paid out only $1 Billion.[3] You can read more in this 2012 summary[3] Of course there were many more nationalizations after 2012, e.g. the GM plant they seized in 2017[4]. You can do your own googling for more fun about everthing from DishTV to telecom equipment, gold mines, etc. Venezuela seized virtually all foreign investment in the country. They owe the international community a huge debt. The diversion of those 4 tanker ships and freezing a couple hundred million is just the first of many, many payments that Venezuela needs to make. See also https://tennesseestar.com/2020/01/14/eight-industries-venezuela-nationalized-besides-oil/ https://tennesseestar.com/2020/01/14/eight-industries-venezu... [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxon/venezuela-ordered-to-pay-exxon-1-6-billion-for-nationalization-idUSKCN0HY20720141010 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxon/venezuela... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxonmobil-idUSTRE8010MC20120102 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxonmobil-idUS... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations/factbox-venezuelas-nationalizations-under-chavez-idUSBRE89701X20121008 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nation... [4] https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/20/news/gm-venezuela-plant-seized/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/20/news/gm-venezuela-plant-sei...
  - crate_barre 5y ago
    Why is Venezuela using the dollar? Why’s it trying to use Bitcoin now? I don’t think they have a clue what to do, might be the simplest explanation.