7 ms·

I kind of wonder why there hasnt been an "uber for bus" yet. I imagine a fleet of buses directed by sophisticated scheduling and navigation algorithms. Users

I kind of wonder why there hasnt been an "uber for bus" yet. I imagine a fleet of buses directed by sophisticated scheduling and navigation algorithms. Users select a destination and pick up point, along with an arrival time. Discounts for ordering 1 day early to aid with scheduling. Pay extra to have the algorithm favor a shorter travel time for you. System makes dynamic smart routes for buses to get people to where they want to go. Make it good at predicting arrival times so people can rely on it. Seems like such an obvious next step for the whole uber/app-based-transport model. Not sure why nobody has tried it yet.

s0rce 5y ago
Isn't Chariot trying (or tried?) to do this? (edit: they did go under in 2019).
benatkin 5y ago
This played out in San Francisco half a decade ago. It didn't work well. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/chariot-private-bus-startup-shutters-operations/?&ampcf=1 https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/chariot-private-bus-startup... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_Transit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_Transit
- sneak 5y ago
  Webvan didn't work, until it did one day. These sorts of casual dismissals assume that the underlying technological landscape doesn't change, and that all organizations execute identically on product. Neither assumption holds true.
- Factorium 5y ago
  It didn't work because they were strangled by regulation, by City Bureaucrats fearful that the private market would outcompete public transport.
LogonType10 5y ago
Because Uber must exploit workers to survive and no one is going to "ride share" their bus.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> I imagine a fleet of buses directed by sophisticated scheduling and navigation algorithms. The primary reason we use large buses rather than e.g. minivans is that it amortizes the cost of the driver over more people. If it weren't for that buses would be less efficient because they're very often not completely full and to be completely full in most cases requires a larger vehicle to travel more miles. What you really want is, effectively, car pools. Someone was already going there and they just take on more passengers, so there is no separate driver you have to pay. But Uber already has this. It's called "driver destinations." You tell it you're driving to work, it gives you passengers near you who want to go near there. You make some extra money on a trip you were making anyway and now your car has five people in it instead of one. Is the problem just that people don't know this?
- rp1 5y ago
  I think the problem is that people don’t want to cram into a car with random strangers, especially with kids.
  - phonebanshee 5y ago
    Can't talk about the kids part, but Uber Pool was definitely a popular thing pre pandemic. People were happy to get in cars with strangers.
    - benatkin 5y ago
      I haven't heard many people say they miss it since it's gone. I sure don't, and back then I would get UberX most of the time when Uber Pool was available. I've been avoiding getting in a situation where I need to take Uber and Lyft and using public transit most of the time and it's much better.
    - dayvid 5y ago
      Yeah I was talking about that with my gf yesterday. She commented on how it was basically a little over bus fare to go to and from work. It’s kinda sad that it’s gone due to the pandemic. It made Uber a lot more affordable.
bushbaba 5y ago
San Mateo county (sf Bay Area) is experimenting with that right now. They are also preparing for what fully autonomous public transit might look like. Even if that means having private “autonomous only” roads. https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/samtrans-ondemand-flx-pacifica-service-returns-to-linda-mar/article_ce755e78-89b5-11ea-994e-539ab77131f4.html https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/samtrans-ondemand-...
gaoshan 5y ago
I've lived in cities with a bus system that meant no wait longer than 10 minutes and no walk to/from a stop of further than a city block. Having a solid mass transit solution requires relatively basic infrastructure before anything else. We shouldn't be trying to create a relatively complicated system when we don't even have a basic one in place and working. I would expect that anyone who has lived in a city with good, clean, affordable, basic, high quality mass transit looks on that privilege quite fondly. Compared to most (awful) systems in the US having once known such a system and now dealing with what much of the US has to offer will be either rage inducing or depressing (or both).
barbazoo 5y ago
Something like that already exists. In Vancouver this is called HandyDART [0]. In my mind though this doesn't work for dense cities where public transit is a solved problem and just needs to be given priority and funding. [0] https://www.translink.ca/rider-guide/transit-accessibility/handydart https://www.translink.ca/rider-guide/transit-accessibility/h...
lhorie 5y ago
That does exist, albeit probably not where you live (yet): https://www.geekwire.com/2019/uber-sees-rapid-adoption-new-bus-service-recruits-high-capacity-vehicles-team-seattle/ https://www.geekwire.com/2019/uber-sees-rapid-adoption-new-b...
markovbot 5y ago
Something like this? https://kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/metro/travel-options/on-demand/via-to-transit.aspx https://kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/metro/travel-opt...
joshu 5y ago
i invested in a company that did this many years ago. they failed.
yomama99 5y ago
No one in this thread seems aware that Uber intends to deploy this, and was about to before Covid hit. CEO said so directly in an interview.
solatic 5y ago
This exists: https://ridewithvia.com/ https://ridewithvia.com/ They're a unicorn as well: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/via-transportation https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/via-transportation
lightrail123 5y ago
Private mass transit has been tried many times before. Read up on the damage it did to places like Santiago, Chile. I know you haven't thought deeply and this is just an internet forum post, but how do you address: 1) Many riders don't have smartphones 2) How do casual riders know which vehicle to get on? 3) If a profitable route is found, how do you prevent companies from cutting under each other, cost wise? If you think public transit is uncomfortable, can you imagine what it would be like if there was a profit incentive? 4) how do you regulate safety standards and driver training? 5) public transit can afford to be flexible and not collect fares sometimes. You think private for profit companies will let folks skip paying a fare? Etc etc etc. There are many, many practical reasons why it's much less efficient and desirable to have a number of private companies fighting over a natural monopoly.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  > Private mass transit has been tried many times before. Read up on the damage it did to places like Santiago, Chile. In Sweden, it's been privatized for quite a while (since the 1990s) with substantial cost savings and service improvements. See https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2010/03/03/in_socialist_stockholm_an_outsourced_transit_service.html https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2010/03/03/in_socialist_s... In your points you assume privatized = unregulated, but nothing in the modern world is unregulated. You also assume privatized = not publicly funded. In other words, all of your points are strawmen and don't apply to modern privatization efforts. In fact even in states that have public transportation, what they do is typically create an authority which is a GSE -- government sponsored enterprise -- to run the infrastructure. The vast majority of port, rails, etc are run by GSEs. The difference between a GSE style approach and privatization is that the GSE is awarded a monopoly for all routes that never changes. That creates a lot of disincentives for good performance and cost efficiency. The rationale of privatization is that you let private businesses bid for contracts for fixed periods of time -- rather than just awarding a permanent contract for all routes to the GSE. > I know you haven't thought deeply and this is just an internet forum post, but how do you address: Ouch. I'd suggest that you could think some more about this issue as well.
- coryrc 5y ago
  NYC has lots of private mass transit providing value to many people without being subsidized to the insane degree public transit is. In fact, they're persecuted despite serving the low-income people the public system supposedly helps. http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/ http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/
dietr1ch 5y ago
I don't think you need something really sophisticated. The true value from public transport comes from predictability. Having a bus take a known route through important routes that allow you get to a stop and board a bus within <10 minutes without even having to know what time it is is really important for people to start relying on the bus system. With that, even if the public transport takes slightly longer, not having to actively drive (in traffic) and find parking makes it much better. Now you use the time to read/think/mindlessly scroll through your phone on your way, or even be a bit dizzy on the way back. I think that adding buses is not enough to reduce car traffic. Probably car-oriented cities are already organized in a way that driving is "needed" often. Cities with public transport make walking amenable, often fun and relaxing.
Tijdreiziger 5y ago
Very common in the Netherlands (and probably other European countries) for areas that don't see enough riders to warrant a regular bus service. I don't know whether the route planning is computer-driven or human-driven, though. The big downside of these systems is that you must reserve your route at least 30 minutes in advance, so the bus company can plan the most efficient route. I think they're mainly used by (and exist for) people who have no other options.

s0rce 5y ago

Isn't Chariot trying (or tried?) to do this? (edit: they did go under in 2019).

benatkin 5y ago

This played out in San Francisco half a decade ago. It didn't work well. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/chariot-private-bus-startup-shutters-operations/?&ampcf=1 https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/chariot-private-bus-startup... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_Transit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_Transit

sneak 5y ago
Webvan didn't work, until it did one day. These sorts of casual dismissals assume that the underlying technological landscape doesn't change, and that all organizations execute identically on product. Neither assumption holds true.
Factorium 5y ago
It didn't work because they were strangled by regulation, by City Bureaucrats fearful that the private market would outcompete public transport.

LogonType10 5y ago

Because Uber must exploit workers to survive and no one is going to "ride share" their bus.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

> I imagine a fleet of buses directed by sophisticated scheduling and navigation algorithms. The primary reason we use large buses rather than e.g. minivans is that it amortizes the cost of the driver over more people. If it weren't for that buses would be less efficient because they're very often not completely full and to be completely full in most cases requires a larger vehicle to travel more miles. What you really want is, effectively, car pools. Someone was already going there and they just take on more passengers, so there is no separate driver you have to pay. But Uber already has this. It's called "driver destinations." You tell it you're driving to work, it gives you passengers near you who want to go near there. You make some extra money on a trip you were making anyway and now your car has five people in it instead of one. Is the problem just that people don't know this?

rp1 5y ago
I think the problem is that people don’t want to cram into a car with random strangers, especially with kids.
- phonebanshee 5y ago
  Can't talk about the kids part, but Uber Pool was definitely a popular thing pre pandemic. People were happy to get in cars with strangers.
  - benatkin 5y ago
    I haven't heard many people say they miss it since it's gone. I sure don't, and back then I would get UberX most of the time when Uber Pool was available. I've been avoiding getting in a situation where I need to take Uber and Lyft and using public transit most of the time and it's much better.
  - dayvid 5y ago
    Yeah I was talking about that with my gf yesterday. She commented on how it was basically a little over bus fare to go to and from work. It’s kinda sad that it’s gone due to the pandemic. It made Uber a lot more affordable.

bushbaba 5y ago

San Mateo county (sf Bay Area) is experimenting with that right now. They are also preparing for what fully autonomous public transit might look like. Even if that means having private “autonomous only” roads. https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/samtrans-ondemand-flx-pacifica-service-returns-to-linda-mar/article_ce755e78-89b5-11ea-994e-539ab77131f4.html https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/samtrans-ondemand-...

gaoshan 5y ago

I've lived in cities with a bus system that meant no wait longer than 10 minutes and no walk to/from a stop of further than a city block. Having a solid mass transit solution requires relatively basic infrastructure before anything else. We shouldn't be trying to create a relatively complicated system when we don't even have a basic one in place and working. I would expect that anyone who has lived in a city with good, clean, affordable, basic, high quality mass transit looks on that privilege quite fondly. Compared to most (awful) systems in the US having once known such a system and now dealing with what much of the US has to offer will be either rage inducing or depressing (or both).

barbazoo 5y ago

Something like that already exists. In Vancouver this is called HandyDART [0]. In my mind though this doesn't work for dense cities where public transit is a solved problem and just needs to be given priority and funding. [0] https://www.translink.ca/rider-guide/transit-accessibility/handydart https://www.translink.ca/rider-guide/transit-accessibility/h...

lhorie 5y ago

That does exist, albeit probably not where you live (yet): https://www.geekwire.com/2019/uber-sees-rapid-adoption-new-bus-service-recruits-high-capacity-vehicles-team-seattle/ https://www.geekwire.com/2019/uber-sees-rapid-adoption-new-b...

markovbot 5y ago

Something like this? https://kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/metro/travel-options/on-demand/via-to-transit.aspx https://kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/metro/travel-opt...

joshu 5y ago

i invested in a company that did this many years ago. they failed.

yomama99 5y ago

No one in this thread seems aware that Uber intends to deploy this, and was about to before Covid hit. CEO said so directly in an interview.

solatic 5y ago

This exists: https://ridewithvia.com/ https://ridewithvia.com/ They're a unicorn as well: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/via-transportation https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/via-transportation

lightrail123 5y ago

Private mass transit has been tried many times before. Read up on the damage it did to places like Santiago, Chile. I know you haven't thought deeply and this is just an internet forum post, but how do you address: 1) Many riders don't have smartphones 2) How do casual riders know which vehicle to get on? 3) If a profitable route is found, how do you prevent companies from cutting under each other, cost wise? If you think public transit is uncomfortable, can you imagine what it would be like if there was a profit incentive? 4) how do you regulate safety standards and driver training? 5) public transit can afford to be flexible and not collect fares sometimes. You think private for profit companies will let folks skip paying a fare? Etc etc etc. There are many, many practical reasons why it's much less efficient and desirable to have a number of private companies fighting over a natural monopoly.

rsj_hn 5y ago
> Private mass transit has been tried many times before. Read up on the damage it did to places like Santiago, Chile. In Sweden, it's been privatized for quite a while (since the 1990s) with substantial cost savings and service improvements. See https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2010/03/03/in_socialist_stockholm_an_outsourced_transit_service.html https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2010/03/03/in_socialist_s... In your points you assume privatized = unregulated, but nothing in the modern world is unregulated. You also assume privatized = not publicly funded. In other words, all of your points are strawmen and don't apply to modern privatization efforts. In fact even in states that have public transportation, what they do is typically create an authority which is a GSE -- government sponsored enterprise -- to run the infrastructure. The vast majority of port, rails, etc are run by GSEs. The difference between a GSE style approach and privatization is that the GSE is awarded a monopoly for all routes that never changes. That creates a lot of disincentives for good performance and cost efficiency. The rationale of privatization is that you let private businesses bid for contracts for fixed periods of time -- rather than just awarding a permanent contract for all routes to the GSE. > I know you haven't thought deeply and this is just an internet forum post, but how do you address: Ouch. I'd suggest that you could think some more about this issue as well.
coryrc 5y ago
NYC has lots of private mass transit providing value to many people without being subsidized to the insane degree public transit is. In fact, they're persecuted despite serving the low-income people the public system supposedly helps. http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/ http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/

dietr1ch 5y ago

I don't think you need something really sophisticated. The true value from public transport comes from predictability. Having a bus take a known route through important routes that allow you get to a stop and board a bus within <10 minutes without even having to know what time it is is really important for people to start relying on the bus system. With that, even if the public transport takes slightly longer, not having to actively drive (in traffic) and find parking makes it much better. Now you use the time to read/think/mindlessly scroll through your phone on your way, or even be a bit dizzy on the way back. I think that adding buses is not enough to reduce car traffic. Probably car-oriented cities are already organized in a way that driving is "needed" often. Cities with public transport make walking amenable, often fun and relaxing.

Tijdreiziger 5y ago

Very common in the Netherlands (and probably other European countries) for areas that don't see enough riders to warrant a regular bus service. I don't know whether the route planning is computer-driven or human-driven, though. The big downside of these systems is that you must reserve your route at least 30 minutes in advance, so the bus company can plan the most efficient route. I think they're mainly used by (and exist for) people who have no other options.