5 ms·

That's incorrect. Here is a review of 19 RCTs showing that masks work: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar

That's incorrect. Here is a review of 19 RCTs showing that masks work: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

timr 5y ago
This review says that none of the community mask trials showed a significant effect. It says that 3/6 studies on respirators in medical settings had no significant effect. It said that 3/5 studies for masks as source control showed no significant effect. Here's a review of every mask study ever performed: https://www.cato.org/working-paper/evidence-community-cloth-face-masking-limit-spread-sars-cov-2-critical-review https://www.cato.org/working-paper/evidence-community-cloth-... Here's a summary written by the same author, in case you're too busy to read 30,000 words: https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/do-masks-reduce-risk-of-covid19-by https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/do-masks-reduce-risk...
- flunhat 5y ago
  Why is everyone you're referencing -- and for that matter, you too -- so damn hysterical? Vinay Prasad, case in point: > When democratically elected systems transform into totalitarian regimes, the transition is subtle, stepwise, and involves a combination of pre-planned as well as serendipitous events. Indeed, this was the case with Germany in the years 1929-1939, where Hitler was given a chance at governing, the president subsequently died, a key general resigned after a scandal and the pathway to the Fuhrer was inevitable. It's a mask & a vaccine, not the beginning of the Third Reich. The fact that your sources can't see the two as different things (and not as part of some slippery slope), tells me they've already arrived at a conclusion and will ignore all contrary evidence. I know masks & vaccines feel oppressive -- but facts simply do not concern themselves with your feelings. There is a world of difference between the Third Reich and public health measures to slow the tide of preventable deaths. To be honest, I can't believe I'm having this debate here.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    Humans are meant to see faces. Requiring people, including kids, to wear them for 8+ hours a day with absolutely no metric to get rid of them is insanity. Especially when said people are fully vaccinated. Vaccinated individuals have no business wearing a mask, period.
    - flunhat 5y ago
      I will repeat myself one more time: Facts simply do not concern themselves with your feelings. I know it feels like oppression (a new Third Reich!!111!) & like there is no metric to get rid of masks, but your feelings alone do not make these true statements. The fact -- and we should concern ourselves with facts, not vague feelings or bouts of hysteria -- is that all of these measures will go away once the pandemic has abated to such an extent that it no longer poses a substantial threat to human lives. It's as simple as that: given that masks do an excellent job of slowing the spread, ceteris paribus, wearing a mask is better than not wearing one. This kind of "feelings logic" is why Trump lost, more or less -- most people are willing to undergo mild inconvenience to save lives & slow the spread of a deadly virus. Despite the feelings of frustration, which we all have.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        Facts don’t dictate policy. Even if masks were incredibly effective so some point we’d have to stop wearing them. Now that we have countless effective medical interventions, I’d say that time is now. Vaccinated individuals have zero business being required to wear masks. They’ve done their part and should be able to return to a fully normal life. COVID is never going away. There is so much more to live for than being treated as a vector for exactly one disease. And what I said is a value statement. Facts or science have nothing to do with it besides they guided and informed my opinions.
        actually_a_dog 5y ago
        > Facts don’t dictate policy. And you don't see that as a problem?
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  That's a mischaracterization. The non-significant results are as a result of "intention to treat" analysis. ITT analysis considers a subject to be part of whatever group they are initially assigned, regardless of what treatment they ultimately receive and/or how adherent they are to the protocol. Some of those studies even note low adherence. You wouldn't expect masks to work if people don't wear them, would you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention-to-treat_analysis#Adherence_to_protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention-to-treat_analysis#Ad...
  - timr 5y ago
    You don't understand medical literature. ITT is the standard -- you don't get to invent a magical world where everyone does whatever you tell them to do, and people frolic amongst the chocolate rivers and gumdrop trees. If people don't listen to your brilliant medical intervention after you make a best effort to get them to do so -- or don't do it "correctly" -- that's on you, not them. Otherwise, I have a brilliant plan to end all obesity, worldwide: don't eat when you're fat. Guaranteed to work. If it fails, it's your fault for not following the plan.

That's incorrect. Here is a review of 19 RCTs showing that masks work: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

timr 5y ago

This review says that none of the community mask trials showed a significant effect. It says that 3/6 studies on respirators in medical settings had no significant effect. It said that 3/5 studies for masks as source control showed no significant effect. Here's a review of every mask study ever performed: https://www.cato.org/working-paper/evidence-community-cloth-face-masking-limit-spread-sars-cov-2-critical-review https://www.cato.org/working-paper/evidence-community-cloth-... Here's a summary written by the same author, in case you're too busy to read 30,000 words: https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/do-masks-reduce-risk-of-covid19-by https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/do-masks-reduce-risk...

flunhat 5y ago
Why is everyone you're referencing -- and for that matter, you too -- so damn hysterical? Vinay Prasad, case in point: > When democratically elected systems transform into totalitarian regimes, the transition is subtle, stepwise, and involves a combination of pre-planned as well as serendipitous events. Indeed, this was the case with Germany in the years 1929-1939, where Hitler was given a chance at governing, the president subsequently died, a key general resigned after a scandal and the pathway to the Fuhrer was inevitable. It's a mask & a vaccine, not the beginning of the Third Reich. The fact that your sources can't see the two as different things (and not as part of some slippery slope), tells me they've already arrived at a conclusion and will ignore all contrary evidence. I know masks & vaccines feel oppressive -- but facts simply do not concern themselves with your feelings. There is a world of difference between the Third Reich and public health measures to slow the tide of preventable deaths. To be honest, I can't believe I'm having this debate here.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Humans are meant to see faces. Requiring people, including kids, to wear them for 8+ hours a day with absolutely no metric to get rid of them is insanity. Especially when said people are fully vaccinated. Vaccinated individuals have no business wearing a mask, period.
  - flunhat 5y ago
    I will repeat myself one more time: Facts simply do not concern themselves with your feelings. I know it feels like oppression (a new Third Reich!!111!) & like there is no metric to get rid of masks, but your feelings alone do not make these true statements. The fact -- and we should concern ourselves with facts, not vague feelings or bouts of hysteria -- is that all of these measures will go away once the pandemic has abated to such an extent that it no longer poses a substantial threat to human lives. It's as simple as that: given that masks do an excellent job of slowing the spread, ceteris paribus, wearing a mask is better than not wearing one. This kind of "feelings logic" is why Trump lost, more or less -- most people are willing to undergo mild inconvenience to save lives & slow the spread of a deadly virus. Despite the feelings of frustration, which we all have.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      Facts don’t dictate policy. Even if masks were incredibly effective so some point we’d have to stop wearing them. Now that we have countless effective medical interventions, I’d say that time is now. Vaccinated individuals have zero business being required to wear masks. They’ve done their part and should be able to return to a fully normal life. COVID is never going away. There is so much more to live for than being treated as a vector for exactly one disease. And what I said is a value statement. Facts or science have nothing to do with it besides they guided and informed my opinions.
      - actually_a_dog 5y ago
        > Facts don’t dictate policy. And you don't see that as a problem?
actually_a_dog 5y ago
That's a mischaracterization. The non-significant results are as a result of "intention to treat" analysis. ITT analysis considers a subject to be part of whatever group they are initially assigned, regardless of what treatment they ultimately receive and/or how adherent they are to the protocol. Some of those studies even note low adherence. You wouldn't expect masks to work if people don't wear them, would you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention-to-treat_analysis#Adherence_to_protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention-to-treat_analysis#Ad...
- timr 5y ago
  You don't understand medical literature. ITT is the standard -- you don't get to invent a magical world where everyone does whatever you tell them to do, and people frolic amongst the chocolate rivers and gumdrop trees. If people don't listen to your brilliant medical intervention after you make a best effort to get them to do so -- or don't do it "correctly" -- that's on you, not them. Otherwise, I have a brilliant plan to end all obesity, worldwide: don't eat when you're fat. Guaranteed to work. If it fails, it's your fault for not following the plan.