4 ms·

I agree with about 95% of this, but, I don't think "travel bans got a bad name because you-know-who proposed them." I think they got a bad name because you-kno

I agree with about 95% of this, but, I don't think "travel bans got a bad name because you-know-who proposed them." I think they got a bad name because you-know-who proposed them previously, targeting countries with you-know-what religion, for a political reason. Had it been just "we're going to reduce air traffic into the country to slow the spread of the virus," I don't think that would have been terribly controversial.

bradlys 5y ago
Yeah, people forget the muslim ban happened before COVID.
- rowathay 5y ago
  People also forget that it wasn’t a Muslim ban. The world’s largest Muslim country was not included in it.
  - msie 5y ago
    Well, those excluded countries included places where Trump had business interests and longtime allies of the US (Saudi Arabia). https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-of-interest/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ba...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - rajup 5y ago
      So it wasn't a Muslim ban then?
      - Aeolun 5y ago
        Just because it doesn’t target all muslim majority countries doesn’t mean it didn’t target solely muslim majority countries.
        rajup 5y ago
        Again, that does not constitute a “Muslim” ban especially as it was portrayed in the media.
nsxwolf 5y ago
Please just say "Trump" and "Muslims" and don't do the Voldemort / Macbeth thing.
readflaggedcomm 5y ago
It failed to apply to populous or notorious Muslim countries like Indonesia or Pakistan, only to those which Obama had previously put on a list. It got a bad name for political reasons, not for the facts of the executive order.
ehsankia 5y ago
It's also worth noting that a lot of the narrative makes it sound like people called him racist for the ban, but it was mostly his use of "Kung-flu" and "china virus" that people had an issue with, not the ban itself.
- blindmute 5y ago
  This is absolutely not true. Every public figure left of center in the country commented viciously about the racist, stupid travel ban.
  - ehsankia 5y ago
    Source please. Find me a prominent politician that specifically called the China travel ban itself racist or xenophobic. If every politician did it, it must be easy to find a clip.
    - blindmute 5y ago
      Oh, I did not read the thread closely enough. The muslim country travel ban, yes, there are many examples. China, not that I know of.
      - ehsankia 5y ago
        For the other ban, the fact that he called it a "muslim ban" and the specific countries that were picked is what made it racist and ineffective. It's hard to claim it's for security when they didn't include UAE, KSA, Egypt or Lebanon where the 9/11 hijackers were from [0]. It also happened to exclude all muslim countries where Trump has business in. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks#Hijackers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_... So yes, it had no other purpose than being racist. Just like Trump didn't really care to use the time bought by the Chinese travel ban to actually develop tests or ramp up PPE. It always was a show rooted in xenophobia.
    - readflaggedcomm 5y ago
XorNot 5y ago
The China travel ban wasn't opposed, it was ineffective because it was both late, and then they wasted all the useful time you could've gotten by not stopping indirect travel or travel from Europe where it was already spreading at the time. By the time a European travel ban was created, it was basically pointless because spread within the US was at wildfire levels compared to any possible contribution from international travel (the question of the morality of forcing flight crews to expose themselves to a deadly novel virus is of course quite a different one). The story of the Trump pandemic response is taking weak action months too late.

bradlys 5y ago

Yeah, people forget the muslim ban happened before COVID.

rowathay 5y ago
People also forget that it wasn’t a Muslim ban. The world’s largest Muslim country was not included in it.
- msie 5y ago
  Well, those excluded countries included places where Trump had business interests and longtime allies of the US (Saudi Arabia). https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-of-interest/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ba...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rajup 5y ago
    So it wasn't a Muslim ban then?
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      Just because it doesn’t target all muslim majority countries doesn’t mean it didn’t target solely muslim majority countries.
      - rajup 5y ago
        Again, that does not constitute a “Muslim” ban especially as it was portrayed in the media.

nsxwolf 5y ago

Please just say "Trump" and "Muslims" and don't do the Voldemort / Macbeth thing.

readflaggedcomm 5y ago

It failed to apply to populous or notorious Muslim countries like Indonesia or Pakistan, only to those which Obama had previously put on a list. It got a bad name for political reasons, not for the facts of the executive order.

ehsankia 5y ago

It's also worth noting that a lot of the narrative makes it sound like people called him racist for the ban, but it was mostly his use of "Kung-flu" and "china virus" that people had an issue with, not the ban itself.

blindmute 5y ago
This is absolutely not true. Every public figure left of center in the country commented viciously about the racist, stupid travel ban.
- ehsankia 5y ago
  Source please. Find me a prominent politician that specifically called the China travel ban itself racist or xenophobic. If every politician did it, it must be easy to find a clip.
  - blindmute 5y ago
    Oh, I did not read the thread closely enough. The muslim country travel ban, yes, there are many examples. China, not that I know of.
    - ehsankia 5y ago
      For the other ban, the fact that he called it a "muslim ban" and the specific countries that were picked is what made it racist and ineffective. It's hard to claim it's for security when they didn't include UAE, KSA, Egypt or Lebanon where the 9/11 hijackers were from [0]. It also happened to exclude all muslim countries where Trump has business in. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks#Hijackers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_... So yes, it had no other purpose than being racist. Just like Trump didn't really care to use the time bought by the Chinese travel ban to actually develop tests or ramp up PPE. It always was a show rooted in xenophobia.
  - readflaggedcomm 5y ago

XorNot 5y ago

The China travel ban wasn't opposed, it was ineffective because it was both late, and then they wasted all the useful time you could've gotten by not stopping indirect travel or travel from Europe where it was already spreading at the time. By the time a European travel ban was created, it was basically pointless because spread within the US was at wildfire levels compared to any possible contribution from international travel (the question of the morality of forcing flight crews to expose themselves to a deadly novel virus is of course quite a different one). The story of the Trump pandemic response is taking weak action months too late.