4 ms·

Some interesting curiosities but in the UK, there are no limits to how inspiring the teaching can be, the challenges are more to do with organisation, energy, t

Some interesting curiosities but in the UK, there are no limits to how inspiring the teaching can be, the challenges are more to do with organisation, energy, teaching mixed groups, consolidating and reusing teaching materials etc. There are many, many teachers who provide education in a way that doesn't match this summary at all.

lordnacho 5y ago
I get the feeling that a lot of people who grew up in the US have an especially jaded view of education. Some of the worst stories of incompetence and dysfunction come from Americans. Though I didn't grow up there, I have had some contact with American educators and there's something to it. The bottom end of teachers at my international school tended to have come from the US system. Similarly, American friends tended to have the host horrific stories about their time there. I know a lot of people from around the world, and most of them do not think so negatively about education, it seems like a US thing.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Conservatives have been pushing this narrative for as long as I can remember. Complain about a government service, all the while making that service worse, until the public agrees and service is terminated. It’s GOP Politics 101. In this case, the aim is government funded parochial schools. But only the right kind of parochial schools.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  In the past, schools had a pretty severe element of bullying, both by students and teachers. It was a pretty toxic environment. It seems to have become a lot better though in the 21st century. It seems there are now less bullied outgroups based on class and interests that were endemic in the late 20th century.
barry-cotter 5y ago
The High School Survey of Student Engagement finds that 66% of high school students are bored in class every day. Seventeen percent say they're bored in every class every day. Two percent claim they're never bored. 82% say the material isn't interesting; 41% that it isn't relevant[1]. Middle school students are bored 36% of the time during schoolwork, versus 17% for other activities. The UK is not different from the US. Most students don't like academics. Some of them hate it. [1]Yazzie-Mintz 2010, pp.6-7 [2] Larson and Richards 1991, pp. 427-29
- lbriner 5y ago
  I didn't say that education was really interesting in the UK, I was saying that the claims that the problems are foundational due to history are not true. There is nothing stopping those educators with the ideas/resources/energy from doing everything the OP said doesn't happen in education. Having been to a UK school, I wouldn't have referred to teachers as academics, so that is a strange quote but for sure, I found many lessons quite tedious and I think there should be less excuses now because of the internet and much cheaper multi-media.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    As a teacher I also wouldn't refer to most teachers as academics. Most students have little to no interest in most of the subjects taught. This is not a knock on them. It's only a little less true of university students, who have chosen to be there. The internet and cheap multi-media do not change the fact that most students find the subjects they are being taught, and the topics in those subjects boring and irrelevant. It's rewarding to teach the kids who find it interesting, or want to learn the skills that the subjects provide a frame for, or who want to get good grades to get into university but many students don't want to be there. Tedium is unavoidable if you're trying to teach someone who has no interest in learning what you're teaching.
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  While I get that things aren't rosy, I think we do have to be fair. High School is supposed to give you a broad basis of education (at least where I went to high school, which is Germany). This means that you have to take a lot classes on topics that you find utterly boring, not interesting and deem irrelevant to your life. Of course I found my German classes irrelevant and boring. I knew the language and grammar very well and having to find meaning in a green "Emergency Exit" sign being mentioned half way down on page one of the book we had to read was completely pointless to me. I wanted to get out of there and go back to the computer lab and learn more about sorting algorithms. But we only had one hour of that each week. And sure, biology class was at least interesting but learning and being tested on how a bee dances to let the hive know where to find the field of flowers definitely is interesting but to I would venture more than 90% of students completely irrelevant. Now reverse everything I said for someone that is interested in language, politics and public speaking. They hate the irrelevant calculus and are bored out of their minds while dreaming of reading and finding meaning in the next Goethe poem.
avgcorrection 5y ago
Yeah, I guess we are going to cling to the idea of the selfless, heroical teacher who can deal with all of their bosses (direct and indirect), regulations, standardizations, go the extra mile each day for lackluster pay, and maybe even chip in for basic school supplies because the school can’t pay for them. I don’t think that’s sustainable at all, for any of the parties. These mythical everyday heroes can’t fundamentally reform a system of education which is more about control than enlightenment.

lordnacho 5y ago

I get the feeling that a lot of people who grew up in the US have an especially jaded view of education. Some of the worst stories of incompetence and dysfunction come from Americans. Though I didn't grow up there, I have had some contact with American educators and there's something to it. The bottom end of teachers at my international school tended to have come from the US system. Similarly, American friends tended to have the host horrific stories about their time there. I know a lot of people from around the world, and most of them do not think so negatively about education, it seems like a US thing.

alistairSH 5y ago
Conservatives have been pushing this narrative for as long as I can remember. Complain about a government service, all the while making that service worse, until the public agrees and service is terminated. It’s GOP Politics 101. In this case, the aim is government funded parochial schools. But only the right kind of parochial schools.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
SyzygistSix 5y ago
In the past, schools had a pretty severe element of bullying, both by students and teachers. It was a pretty toxic environment. It seems to have become a lot better though in the 21st century. It seems there are now less bullied outgroups based on class and interests that were endemic in the late 20th century.

barry-cotter 5y ago

The High School Survey of Student Engagement finds that 66% of high school students are bored in class every day. Seventeen percent say they're bored in every class every day. Two percent claim they're never bored. 82% say the material isn't interesting; 41% that it isn't relevant[1]. Middle school students are bored 36% of the time during schoolwork, versus 17% for other activities. The UK is not different from the US. Most students don't like academics. Some of them hate it. [1]Yazzie-Mintz 2010, pp.6-7 [2] Larson and Richards 1991, pp. 427-29

lbriner 5y ago
I didn't say that education was really interesting in the UK, I was saying that the claims that the problems are foundational due to history are not true. There is nothing stopping those educators with the ideas/resources/energy from doing everything the OP said doesn't happen in education. Having been to a UK school, I wouldn't have referred to teachers as academics, so that is a strange quote but for sure, I found many lessons quite tedious and I think there should be less excuses now because of the internet and much cheaper multi-media.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  As a teacher I also wouldn't refer to most teachers as academics. Most students have little to no interest in most of the subjects taught. This is not a knock on them. It's only a little less true of university students, who have chosen to be there. The internet and cheap multi-media do not change the fact that most students find the subjects they are being taught, and the topics in those subjects boring and irrelevant. It's rewarding to teach the kids who find it interesting, or want to learn the skills that the subjects provide a frame for, or who want to get good grades to get into university but many students don't want to be there. Tedium is unavoidable if you're trying to teach someone who has no interest in learning what you're teaching.
tharkun__ 5y ago
While I get that things aren't rosy, I think we do have to be fair. High School is supposed to give you a broad basis of education (at least where I went to high school, which is Germany). This means that you have to take a lot classes on topics that you find utterly boring, not interesting and deem irrelevant to your life. Of course I found my German classes irrelevant and boring. I knew the language and grammar very well and having to find meaning in a green "Emergency Exit" sign being mentioned half way down on page one of the book we had to read was completely pointless to me. I wanted to get out of there and go back to the computer lab and learn more about sorting algorithms. But we only had one hour of that each week. And sure, biology class was at least interesting but learning and being tested on how a bee dances to let the hive know where to find the field of flowers definitely is interesting but to I would venture more than 90% of students completely irrelevant. Now reverse everything I said for someone that is interested in language, politics and public speaking. They hate the irrelevant calculus and are bored out of their minds while dreaming of reading and finding meaning in the next Goethe poem.

avgcorrection 5y ago

Yeah, I guess we are going to cling to the idea of the selfless, heroical teacher who can deal with all of their bosses (direct and indirect), regulations, standardizations, go the extra mile each day for lackluster pay, and maybe even chip in for basic school supplies because the school can’t pay for them. I don’t think that’s sustainable at all, for any of the parties. These mythical everyday heroes can’t fundamentally reform a system of education which is more about control than enlightenment.