4 ms·

I come from the town where Bialetti, Alessi, Lagostina and a bunch of other brands were founded. Think about Silicon Valley but for kitchenware. All these prod

I come from the town where Bialetti, Alessi, Lagostina and a bunch of other brands were founded. Think about Silicon Valley but for kitchenware. All these products enjoyed (and still enjoy) great success around the world but all these companies are not in good shape anymore, mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting, therefore they are not forcing customers to buy new products every few years.

SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
It's a real shame that the economic incentive is to produce cheap, disposable crap that needs to be repurchased for each use
- thinkindie 5y ago
  Indeed. And the story of Alessi and Bialetti is a clear example.
rjsw 5y ago
I have several Lagostina pans, I'm not expecting to need to replace them in my lifetime.
toyg 5y ago
> mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap), and the competition from actual-espresso makers (Nespresso) is now intense (because, again, they can produce in Asia and hence sell at low prices). There is always demand for new kitchenware, as people grow and move out of their parents' house. But that demand is typically for cheap kitchenware, which you cannot make in "old countries" anymore without being destroyed on price by hungry upstarts.
- moolcool 5y ago
  Nespresso is debatably an actual espresso maker
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  People have lost the appreciation for quality goods. My Bialetti has traveled once around the world with me, it doesn't burn me when I pour it, there's no rough casting causing it to lock together when it's hot, the plastic handle is made to take the heat and doesn't melt onto the stove, it also doesn't break at the point of connection. All problems I've had with cheaper brands and other person's mokas. I like getting good deals on things, but if its something that I'm going to use every day, I will buy a quality item over a cheap item because I know that it will cost me less in the long run.
  - ip26 5y ago
    I argue what you’re actually observing is the vanishing middle market. People still appreciate quality, but with the market bifurcating your only choices are cheap crap or expensive luxury. Quality at a reasonable cost is frequently just not an option. I haven’t figured out the ‘why’ - dwindling middle class? Min-max consumer purchase patterns? Perhaps planned obsolescence is actually optimal on average? (e.g. home mechanics just don’t need Snap-On quality)
    - toyg 5y ago
      IMHO is just the usual capitalist pressure to maximize profits. You can't make stable profits year-in year-out selling the same widget with the same profit margin, nope - you have to grow. So you either push volume, which inevitably drives quality down; or you push price, which drives quality up but inevitably restricts the audience.
    - sonofhans 5y ago
      I’ve thought this, too, and like you I don’t have a compelling explanation. It’s true that the middle class is dwindling, but even the poor today have more _stuff_ than the middle class used to. But it is, as you say, mostly crap. I’m not sure what you mean by consumer min-maxing, but perhaps this — one thing I’ve thought is that the amount and variety of crap you own in this culture is more important than the quality. And not from a utility perspective, rather because our dominant entertainment reinforces it. It’s a given that you must own a dishwasher, so you get a cheap one — yet it’s literally worse than hand-washing dishes, and needs to be replaced every 5 years. You can’t own one good kitchen knife, you must get a wooden knife block like the chefs have, even if all seven knives are crap. Many of the cheap tools you buy at Harbor Freight will literally break the first time you use them as intended. This is all told a shocking waste of human effort — every scrap of resource and moment of time spent creating this crap is wasted, burned forever. When often just making something 20% better will leave it “good enough.”
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap) It's also that they have no problem copying designs instead of innovating and creating their own. So the western companies pays for R&D and marketing and the Chinese CopyCat just tries to match the product as much as it can and flood online retailers.
- thinkindie 5y ago
  it's not just about price, but i think market saturation. Apple is selling expensive phones that competitors are selling for a fraction of Apple phones, but Apple expects an average lifespan of 3 years for their phones. Which means, every year someone is upgrading their phone. In fact Apple got some issues around this with iPad, whereas people are not upgrading their tablets (or laptops) as often as their phones. If you have sturdy moka coffee pot, you will most probably get one in a lifetime. Same goes for other long lasting products (my mum has still her pressure cooker from Lagostina from a couple of decades ago).

SturgeonsLaw 5y ago

It's a real shame that the economic incentive is to produce cheap, disposable crap that needs to be repurchased for each use

thinkindie 5y ago
Indeed. And the story of Alessi and Bialetti is a clear example.

rjsw 5y ago

I have several Lagostina pans, I'm not expecting to need to replace them in my lifetime.

toyg 5y ago

> mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap), and the competition from actual-espresso makers (Nespresso) is now intense (because, again, they can produce in Asia and hence sell at low prices). There is always demand for new kitchenware, as people grow and move out of their parents' house. But that demand is typically for cheap kitchenware, which you cannot make in "old countries" anymore without being destroyed on price by hungry upstarts.

moolcool 5y ago
Nespresso is debatably an actual espresso maker
aunty_helen 5y ago
People have lost the appreciation for quality goods. My Bialetti has traveled once around the world with me, it doesn't burn me when I pour it, there's no rough casting causing it to lock together when it's hot, the plastic handle is made to take the heat and doesn't melt onto the stove, it also doesn't break at the point of connection. All problems I've had with cheaper brands and other person's mokas. I like getting good deals on things, but if its something that I'm going to use every day, I will buy a quality item over a cheap item because I know that it will cost me less in the long run.
- ip26 5y ago
  I argue what you’re actually observing is the vanishing middle market. People still appreciate quality, but with the market bifurcating your only choices are cheap crap or expensive luxury. Quality at a reasonable cost is frequently just not an option. I haven’t figured out the ‘why’ - dwindling middle class? Min-max consumer purchase patterns? Perhaps planned obsolescence is actually optimal on average? (e.g. home mechanics just don’t need Snap-On quality)
  - toyg 5y ago
    IMHO is just the usual capitalist pressure to maximize profits. You can't make stable profits year-in year-out selling the same widget with the same profit margin, nope - you have to grow. So you either push volume, which inevitably drives quality down; or you push price, which drives quality up but inevitably restricts the audience.
  - sonofhans 5y ago
    I’ve thought this, too, and like you I don’t have a compelling explanation. It’s true that the middle class is dwindling, but even the poor today have more _stuff_ than the middle class used to. But it is, as you say, mostly crap. I’m not sure what you mean by consumer min-maxing, but perhaps this — one thing I’ve thought is that the amount and variety of crap you own in this culture is more important than the quality. And not from a utility perspective, rather because our dominant entertainment reinforces it. It’s a given that you must own a dishwasher, so you get a cheap one — yet it’s literally worse than hand-washing dishes, and needs to be replaced every 5 years. You can’t own one good kitchen knife, you must get a wooden knife block like the chefs have, even if all seven knives are crap. Many of the cheap tools you buy at Harbor Freight will literally break the first time you use them as intended. This is all told a shocking waste of human effort — every scrap of resource and moment of time spent creating this crap is wasted, burned forever. When often just making something 20% better will leave it “good enough.”
908B64B197 5y ago
> I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap) It's also that they have no problem copying designs instead of innovating and creating their own. So the western companies pays for R&D and marketing and the Chinese CopyCat just tries to match the product as much as it can and flood online retailers.
thinkindie 5y ago
it's not just about price, but i think market saturation. Apple is selling expensive phones that competitors are selling for a fraction of Apple phones, but Apple expects an average lifespan of 3 years for their phones. Which means, every year someone is upgrading their phone. In fact Apple got some issues around this with iPad, whereas people are not upgrading their tablets (or laptops) as often as their phones. If you have sturdy moka coffee pot, you will most probably get one in a lifetime. Same goes for other long lasting products (my mum has still her pressure cooker from Lagostina from a couple of decades ago).