19 ms·
The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot (2018)
- beebmam 5y agoIf you're boiling the coffee (which is what the moka pot does), you're burning the coffee. I love moka pot brews, but as least be honest: you're burning it!
- aneutron 5y agoYou're not. Not if you heat your water before putting in the grounds. Practically speaking, once you heat your water, it's a matter of seconds to get the coffee rolling. You should try it.
- bruprup 5y agoInteresting, but I think it's exactly opposite - I would think using water at 4C (the densest water gets) would give you the lowest brew temperature. With water at 4C, puts the most water inside the pressure chamber, leading to the greatest pressure change for a given delta(T). Instead, if the water is just below boiling, the water going through the grinds must be higher than 100 C (since the pressure raises the boiling point). It'll brew faster, and there is an argument to be made that quicker brews lead to less burning. But the T would be highest.
- foobarian 5y agoIf you start with cold water the increasing vapor pressure on the way to boiling will force some of the water through the coffee at varying temperatures, but past that it will reach steady state and end up pushing boiling water. Not sure how much of a difference there is in getting to that point. I don't think pressure matters much since the Bialetti is not a high pressure vessel (maybe 1.5atm probably less if beans are really coarse). Boiling less quickly (i.e. using lower heat) might put the coffee in contact with boiling water for longer. So it would seem high heat and cold water would be the way to go if you want to minimize the temperature-time product of the beans-to-water contact.
- bruprup 5y agoNow I want to make two batches of coffee and measure the resultant coffee's temperature.
- dredmorbius 5y agoThe Moka pot works by vapour pressure, not boiling per se. In the three-chamber design, there's a tight seal between the lower chamber (filled with water), and the cup (filled with grounds), connected by the siphon pipe. As the water is heated, even before it reaches boiling point, it's being forced up through the grounds. The last dregs of water are steam-hot, but earlier is not. And the liquid water keeps the temperature of the entire pot (including coffee) at or below the boiling point. The pressure and heat should result in a strong, rich, but not bitter, brew. Leaving the pot on the stove after it begins to "spit" (as steam sputters up the stempipe) will burn the coffee (and seals and pot). So Don't Do That.
- intrasight 5y agoI make my morning espresso daily in a Bialetti. Has been since visiting my sis in Italy 5 years ago. Glad to hear they are making a comeback.
- vosper 5y agoIf I'm staying in an Airbnb and want to be able to make something like an espresso, are these any good? I'm not really a fan of plunger coffee, which seems like the other travel-friendly non-instant alternative? Or... buy an Aeropress instead?
- stephen_g 5y agoWith good coffee, (preferably freshly ground, but you do what you have to) and a bit of technique, yeah, they can make quite good coffee. It's stronger than pour over or french press, but still probably only a third to a half as strong as espresso. I've never had an aeropress so it's hard for me to compare quality etc., but when I've had coffee with friends who use them, the aeropress does seem bit more cumbersome and messy than the mokka pot.
- kzrdude 5y agoHowever for people who already like aeropress, they are kind of popular to being for camping/hiking. But sharing coffee with more than one person takes time.
- yetihehe 5y agoFor me, aeropress is much less cumbersome than mokka pot and much easier to clean. Both make good coffee, but since I've found one specific coffee brand that I like (one of the cheaper ones), no other coffee tastes as good for me, but I'll drink anything that's available.
- lukaslalinsky 5y agoWith aeropress, the brewing is more manual (you control how hot is the water, how long you keep it brewing, etc), which has its pros and cons. So you can make really good coffee, or really bad coffee. But one thing where aeropress shines is cleaning. I'd use my moka pot more often, purely for consistency without effort, if it was as easy to clean as aeropress.
- limecat 5y agoWhenever I go camping I always take a small moka pot with me. If you use good quality coffee then it never fails to deliver a very decent cup. It's not going to be equal to a coffee shop espresso, but it gets you 80% there. And you may be able to pick one up for 20 bucks. The only part that needs replacing every now and then is the rubber ring that seals the pot when you screw it together. Other than that they're virtually indestructible. At home I have the large De'Longhi, but if that can't be used there is always a moka pot on standby.
- agys 5y ago“Moka 101”: an (almost) scientific approach for the perfect coffee by Ubi de Feo (an obsessive compulsive coffee maniac and great hacker, among other things). Part 1 & 2 https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE25jEFg8U https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE25jEFg8U https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE6VpKjvzu https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE6VpKjvzu
- samplenoise 5y agoI adopted a few tricks from either [1] or a similar video from James Hoffman’s Youtube channel some time ago (including the foaming milk with a French press one) and it vastly improved my lockdowns. The one useful thing they don’t say is (imo) it’s easier to get it right with a smaller size pot. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
- severine 5y agoThanks! I just gave a thorough clean to mine, tweaked times and heat and had my best coffee of the year.
- Graziano_M 5y agoYoutube upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCa5J7LcO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCa5J7LcO0
- ubidefeo 5y agothank you
- ubidefeo 5y agoI appreciate it, mate. I'm planning a (shorter) video on gasket priming, which many underestimate :)
- brainlessdev 5y agoI brew coffee using what's IMO the ultimate moka pot: the Alessi 9090. It's designed by Richard Sapper who also designed the first ThinkPad. I still think a proper espresso machine produces better... espressos, but in my tiny apartment the moka pot is a great alternative. There's certainly a fair bit of technique involved, so you probably won't produce your best coffee on the first go.
- martin_balsam 5y agoAnd this is the ultimate HN answer. Even in a thread about coffee, it must mention ThinkPads But I also have the same moka. It’s good
- vanderZwan 5y agoTo be fair, it's like a combination of their two favorite things
- kingcharles 5y agoIf you go on the ThinkPad forums all they talk about is Moka Pots. It's turtles all the way down!
- fartcannon 5y agoIt's not the ultimate thread, though, until someone mentions that ThinkPads are made by Lenovo who got caught including spyware in their laptops. That reply will get at least 2 replies that say, 'yah but never in the thinkpad lineup'
- pell 5y agoyah but never in the thinkpad lineup
- jlkuester7 5y agoyah but never in the thinkpad lineup
- jeffrallen 5y agoThis is my daily driver coffee maker. Mine is over 15 years old. Drinking coffee like an Italian grandma makes me happy. As an aside, in 2008, I saw a production of Tosca, by Opera North (Yorkshire, England). https://web.archive.org/web/20081025105247/http://www.leedsgrandtheatre.com:80/tosca_unid5b13_page.aspx https://web.archive.org/web/20081025105247/http://www.leedsg... In it was a priest, who glumly watched the action unfold around him, powerless to stop it. His only consolation was the ritual of making coffee in his Moka. Sometimes I think about that opera while brewing my coffee...
- mino 5y agoItalian born and raised, but moved around in various contries. I own a handful of Bialetti mokas of different sizes. A couple of those are from my teenager years, I don't even remember buying them, they might have been from my parents. I still use them multiple times daily. Mokas are for life. As long as you replace the plastic gasket once in a while (a couple bucks) and you don't accidentally melt the handle (which you can replace anyway) they'll outlive all of us.
- infotogivenm 5y agoCame here to say this. Everytime i look at a moka I am delighted about how sturdy it is, and think about how no one builds stuff built to last as long anymore. cast aluminum ftw.
- mino 5y agoExactly: at its core a moka is just a casted aluminium blob. Good luck breaking that one. Replaceable parts are a few euros.
- Lio 5y agoI love the simplicity and perfection of a moka pot. The Dualit toaster is another piece of "built to last" kitchen equipment. https://www.dualit.com/products/classic-toasters https://www.dualit.com/products/classic-toasters Pressed steel panels and all parts available since 1946. They're made for caterers so you probably won't ever need to repair it if you're using it domestically. We've had ours since 2004ish and it still looks and works exactly like new.
- collaborative 5y agoI went ahead and bought one (couldn't find my old one anywhere) when my 5 year old Nespresso machine broke a few months ago The coffee is delicious and I don't have to use plastic pods. And I now spend a pittance on coffee
- swah 5y agoAnd its like 20 seconds to make, come back in 5 minutes, delicious coffee. Hats off to the marketing team on Nespresso
- quickthrower2 5y agoWhat scares me about trying moka is I might enjoy it more than espresso (which I add water or milk to anyway) and obsolete my espresso machine and the effort I’ve gone into mastering the basics!
- SyzygistSix 5y agoIt's doubtful you will. It doesn't make espresso like an espresso machine does; it's more like coffee. I like them both and like a moka and a french press, they aren't really substitutes for each other.
- archsurface 5y ago"20 seconds to make, come back in 5 minutes" - how does that work?
- zhdc1 5y ago> Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive, difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy perspective. They do not really make sense for the home. The author talks about the La Pavoni Ideale, but I don't get how they missed La Pavoni's current bread and butter, the Europiccola and Professional, both of which are more than small enough to fit in a kitchen, make great espresso, and have been sold since the 1960s.
- seg_lol 5y agoIf we are talking about efficiency, you can brew wonderful coffee w/o ever getting up to 100C. Using steam to diffuse out the essence from the grounds is one great way, but there are so many other ones as well. Coffee brewing is like a thermodynamic engine diagram, lots of different routes along the temperature, pressure, mass, flow rate, ground size and packed density dimensions.
- Lio 5y agoI love the idea of a La Pavoni hand pump machine. Such a beautiful design. Sadly though, the truth is I can barely work my existing semi-automatic espresso maker until I've had my first shot of the day! If I had a fully manual machine that first shot would end in some kind of Clouseauesque[1] destruction of my kitchen... 1. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Clouseauesque https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Clouseauesque
- vanderZwan 5y agoI recommend putting googly eyes on the top lid[0]. That way, even if you're home alone you will start your day with a happy friend who will gladly pour you a cup of comfort. Always cheers me up a bit! [0] https://i.imgur.com/MGUj9cV.png https://i.imgur.com/MGUj9cV.png
- Hamuko 5y agoDon't those get hot? Adhesives and heat don't really mix well. – Tried to once fix an electric kettle with duct tape.
- unixhero 5y agoAs you can see in the photo, there is discoloration on the plastic. Yes these have almost melted several times.
- vanderZwan 5y agoCorrect, but it doesn't touch the coffee nor do I have to touch that part of the lid, so I'm not too worried (also I just pretend my buddy is getting old and blind with age)
- zerocount 5y agoSpeaking of duct tape, I'm using it as a bandaid right now. It really is a universal 'fix all.' haha
- KineticLensman 5y agoYes. The rules of DIY: If it moves when it shouldn't, use duct tape[0]. If it doesn't move when it should, use WD40 [0] A slightly heretical alternative here is to use cable ties, daisy-chained if necessary for larger jobs.
- p_l 5y agoArguably cable ties are the plastic edition of pre-tape bailing wire
- thriftwy 5y agoWe had one in an apartment's kitchen when I was visiting California so they can't be that rare, are they?
- doddsiedodds 5y agoA great video guide from chefsteps and James Hoffman on brewing with a Moka pot: https://youtu.be/rpyBYuu-wJI https://youtu.be/rpyBYuu-wJI
- jack_riminton 5y agoI used my first Moka whilst I was on family holiday to Tuscany and it produced the best coffee I'd ever tasted. Somehow it tasted creamy despite it just being normal black coffee.
- taffronaut 5y agoThe sad thing about moka pots is that they never break or wear out and no one can sell you a subscription for pods or filters. They have a quiet presence and reassurance which is drowned out by the clamour of commerce hammering at your door to sell you something slightly less messy and slightly more convenient at the expense of the planet and your soul.
- alexellisuk 5y agoI have stopped using the aluminium ones which tend to go bad, very fluffy and rusty-looking. The Stainless steel models seem much cleaner over time and only need new rubber seals. Unless you forget about it on the hob and melt down the handle (don't do this!)
- yobbo 5y agoWell, you still need to replace the rubber sealing ring.
- jan_Inkepa 5y agoMy flatmate keeps forgetting his moka pot on the hob and needs to buy new rubber seals pretty regularly.
- hiddevb 5y agoAnd the great thing is Bialetti sells these parts for pretty cheap: https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/accessories/spare-parts.html https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/accessories/spare-parts.html I love that products and companies like these still exist, sad indeed that they have such a hard time to survive.
- smorgusofborg 5y agoThe electric moka shuts itself off with the same system as a rice cooker and is extremely durable as long as it is an all metal exterior. I don't know why they are so hard to find.
- CannisterFlux 5y agoI got in the habit of setting an alarm on my phone for 5 minutes after I put the pot on. Even if I think I'm going to stay in the kitchen and watch it, I set the alarm. It's amazing how I get distracted, forget that I put the damn thing on as if it never existed, then the alarm goes off and I think "oh yeah!! the coffee!".
- prvc 5y agoVery long article, from which I was unable to ascertain what was so brilliant about the Moka Pot. Unfortunately, this gizmo no longer provides the most convenient coffee-making method ("pods" seem to be more "convenient"), nor the least expensive in terms of equipment cost (that would be the "pour-over"). I can't see a niche for them today, aside from novelty or nostalgia.
- coolca 5y agoNiche? Everyone uses them in Italy.
- rjsw 5y agoAnd Italian electric hobs are made with one of the four heating elements much smaller to match the size of the Moka pot.
- mtrycz2 5y agoMoka (or its lesser known refinement, Brikka) is still the most convenient to me. It's small. It's 0 maintenance. It's works during blackouts or on a camping stove. Maybe not as fast as an applicance, but still fast. Compared to a bulky, single-purpose appliance which gives an aftertaste after a couple of months, yeah it's more convenient.
- INTPenis 5y agoStrange that this crops up now because my mother just found one at her second hand store and started using it last week. Showed it to me this weekend when I visited. She's bosnian so she's made coffee with a turkish coffee pot directly on the stove most of my life. As a kid I would also grind beans for her in an old brass hand cranked grinder from Bosnia. When you grind the beans yourself by hand they do tend to be a bit coarser, fitting for the moka pot.
- zonovar 5y agoAs an Italian living abroad I can tell you that one or two old Moka always travel with you. There's always space for a Moka in your luggage. My experience is also that the best coffee comes from the old beaten up and a bit burned Moka owned by your old grandma.
- enriquto 5y ago> Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive, difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy perspective. Every one of these four statements is so comically false that you cannot help to attribute a dose of bad faith in the author. You can buy a real espresso machine that fits in a 15cm x 30cm base (like two bottles of water side by side) for about 100EUR, which is definitely easier to use than a moka pot, and does not waste energy by heating the air in the kitchen.
- calmoo 5y agoWhat machine are you referring to?
- enriquto 5y agoI don't want to make publicity of a brand here, but I just went to a local shop and got the smallest one that got to 19 bar. It makes excellent expressos with cream and all (if you buy appropriately ground coffee). EDIT: just look for "thin espresso machine" on a search engine, there's plenty of choice!
- 2rsf 5y agoNespresso's promise 19 bar as well, but they use a simple PTC element to heat the water as they pass over it so in reality it's "up to 19 bar"
- ValentineC 5y ago> It makes excellent expressos with cream and all (if you buy appropriately ground coffee). Most cheap espresso machines achieve crema and pressure via a pressurised portafilter [1]. Nothing wrong with having one as a beginner, but you're stuck with using coarser grinds because of the always-there pressure, and it limits the number of variables you're able to play with to "dial in" beans. [1] https://coffee.stackexchange.com/questions/2641/how-big-of-a-difference-is-there-between-a-pressurised-and-non-pressurised-porta https://coffee.stackexchange.com/questions/2641/how-big-of-a...
- anschwa 5y agoThe moka pot is super cool and I thought it made great coffee...until I discovered that I preferred almost every other possible brew method. The moka pot is very hard to dial in and almost always burns the coffee. It requires care, focus, and attention. They're much more inconsistent than pour over and even the lever espresso machines I've used are less work. I think moka pots are fun and worth experimenting with but I find it hard to believe people really love the results. But if you are always adding milk and sugar, then I can definitely see the appeal.
- Tor3 5y agoWhat is it that makes it hard to dial in? Is it the amount of heat? I had very little experience with moka pots until recently, even though I lived in Italy and the apartment I rented included at least five Bialetti pots varying in size from small to large - I didn't understand how they worked, so I never tried, and it was easier to just go outside to the nearest coffee bar. But this summer I rented a motor home for the holidays (yeah yeah covid vacation -again), which came with a Bialetti. So I looked up how to use it, and every morning I would make a couple of cups for myself and the wife, on the gas stove. Perfect coffee every time, very easy, no problems whatsoever. The gas stove I used was on max every time, no changes, so maybe that's why it was consistent.. but I don't really see how it matters, as the heat is just making steam after all. So how can you get burned coffee?
- tokai 5y agoOptimal brewing temperature is ~93.0°C. So steam is too hot.
- smorgusofborg 5y agoI would think that is the best brewing temperature at 0 bar? An espresso machine is going to reach higher temperatures and makes a good coffee. https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/ https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/
- messe 5y ago
- eb0la 5y agoMy dad always had a moka pot at home. One day he bought a De Lonhgi Alicia moka pot - that you can plug to a wall socket! He never went back to "traditional" ones. I have another Alicia pot. I like it much more than capsules.
- toolslive 5y agowent to Italy on vacation, bought a Bialetti to take home and have been using it ever since (15y). Tip: If you plan to use an induction stove, please check if the model you plan to buy can work with it.
- radarsat1 5y agoSurprised to read about problems of Bialetti. I see their moka pots in the kitchen shops everywhere. I have two. I guess you never know what's going on behind the scenes. These days I use an aeropress more often, it's similar in terms of convenience but is faster and more importantly I find it doesn't require heating the coffee as much, which makes it taste better.
- bruprup 5y agoI have three, 1 cup, 3 cup and 9 cup. 1 cup is for me and my wife (we wait while the other finishes) 2 cup is for when we a guest 9 cup is for my 70 year old parents. I cringe just seeing them drink 4.5 cups each.
- qalmakka 5y agoEvery day, twice a day, I grind my coffee and put my trusty old aluminium Bialetti Moka pot on the hob. It's my ritual, and no crappy pods can ever take that away from me. As long as I remember to swap out its rubber gasket, I know for a fact that this pot will neither break nor stop functioning. It's one thing of beauty, the Moka pot. A great feat of ingenuity. The only thing that saddens me a bit is that when (not if) I will switch to an induction stove I will have to buy a new steel pot, or switch to an electric one. Until then, she's my mainstay.
- creamytaco 5y agoYou're not worried about Alzheimer's disease? Even if there is no current moka pot-specific evidence (there haven't been a lot of studies), why take the chance?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- qalmakka 5y agoYou could argue that basically everything has the potential of being harmful in the long term. Red meat, gas hobs, living in a polluted city, plastic, ... People are exposed to so many substances that we actually know for a fact they are either carcinogenic or bad for our health, and yet most don't do that much about it. If you start cutting out of your life even things that are not demonstrated to be bad for you, you're left with basically nothing. One thing is to have actual evidence that something is harmful, one other is to follow any suspicion that is waved around.
- creamytaco 5y agoWe know aluminum is harmful and implicated in multiple serious health conditions. The only unknown here is the degree of aluminum leeching from the pot to the coffee. For something you do twice a day, this is a different kind of preventable exposure to risk than eating red meat or living in a polluted city. IMO one would be a fool to accept this risk, even if small.
- omeze 5y agoMoka pots are definitely great if they're available, but IMO they're outcompeted if you're in the market as an enthusiast by Aeropresses in the mid-range ($30-$50) and generic steel coffee filters in the low range ($10). As others have commented, the coffee itself is the most important thing to get right - a great bean brewed normally will beat a mediocre bean brewed perfectly :)
- pashky 5y agoAnd once again this article ignores the fact that biggest threat to Bialetti's own sales are not other ways to brew, but clones. Simplicity of the design means copies are just as good. I once bought 2cup pot in Aldi for only 4 euros because Airbnb where I stayed only had huge 12 cup version and it was just me drinking coffee. I simply left it there when I moved out. Which is actually another problem - they don't work very well when partially loaded. So you can't own only one if you ever have guests and don't want to do multiple runs.
- fanf2 5y agoI have a couple of moka pots which I like to use in the summer to make iced coffee. The small one is annoyingly too small for a decently sized drink. So I got a huge Bialetti, since it seemed rude to buy a cheap clone. It makes about a pint of strong coffee which is enough for a couple of very long cold lattès.
- DocTomoe 5y agoOr - given they are pretty cheap - you get a small one for your personal morning coffee, and a large one for when you have guests over.
- t0bia_s 5y agoI always wonder how is possible to make moka from aluminium that is poisonous?
- netfortius 5y agoRecently moved from the US to Europe, and (re)discovered the moka pot, after many years of having one and never used (received as a gift, and stored in my kitchen more as a curiosity, then left behind me, when moving). Acquiring one, once in Europe, and starting using it (alongside my more commonly used French Press), I discovered new ways to bring up flavour in coffee. I doubt this is a dying breed ...
- yosito 5y agoAs an American, I never used a moka pot until I moved to the Dominican Republic. Almost everyone there uses moka pots, which they call a greca cafetera. When I learned how to use one, I fell in love, and because of that people started telling me I was "aplatanao" (assimilated). Now I live in Hungary. Here a moka pot is called a kotyogos kávézógép, and when I make coffee with it, people say "you're so Hungarian". Everyone technically knows it was originally invented in Italy, but because of it's simplicity and ubiquity, in many places it's considered "the people's" way of making coffee. I absolutely love it. It's the simplest way to make a good coffee, and the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper espresso made with a fancy machine.
- toyg 5y ago> the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper espresso I'm with you, but my mum (Italian) nowadays just refuses to drink espresso. She worked in hospitals, and they would make coffee with mokas all day long, so that's what she wants. At home, I have to keep a Bialetti and a single pack of Lavazza just for her, for when she comes over once a year.
- foobarian 5y agoI've seen the moka on the Croatian side as well, where they call it a "kafeterija." Here's one neat trick some of the moka users there have: put about 1 teaspoon of sugar in your cup, then as soon as the water starts to percolate (about 1cm of coffee in the top compartment) take it off the heat and pour about 1cm over the sugar. Put back on heat to finish percolating. Meanwhile use the back of a teaspoon to grind the sugar into the coffee, really press into it like a mortar and pestle. You need the consistency to be about the viscosity of honey. Then fill your cup and stir. You end up with a delicious, rich, sweet white foam at the top.
- sbierwagen 5y agoAmusing that you say this, since it’s mentioned in the article: > the Cuban concoction cafecito is made by quickly whipping the first few drops of moka pot coffee with sugar, creating a paste that both flavors the coffee and simulates a classic espresso foam.
- achairapart 5y agoJust beware of cheap china replicas, a study from some time ago found alarming levels of lead in many of these. Always buy the original one, you can't go wrong anyway as they really can last a lifetime.
- thinkindie 5y agoI come from the town where Bialetti, Alessi, Lagostina and a bunch of other brands were founded. Think about Silicon Valley but for kitchenware. All these products enjoyed (and still enjoy) great success around the world but all these companies are not in good shape anymore, mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting, therefore they are not forcing customers to buy new products every few years.
- SturgeonsLaw 5y agoIt's a real shame that the economic incentive is to produce cheap, disposable crap that needs to be repurchased for each use
- thinkindie 5y agoIndeed. And the story of Alessi and Bialetti is a clear example.
- rjsw 5y agoI have several Lagostina pans, I'm not expecting to need to replace them in my lifetime.
- toyg 5y ago> mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap), and the competition from actual-espresso makers (Nespresso) is now intense (because, again, they can produce in Asia and hence sell at low prices). There is always demand for new kitchenware, as people grow and move out of their parents' house. But that demand is typically for cheap kitchenware, which you cannot make in "old countries" anymore without being destroyed on price by hungry upstarts.
- moolcool 5y agoNespresso is debatably an actual espresso maker
- denton-scratch 5y agoI haven't used a moka pot for decades; IME, they made bitter coffee. Since they still work the same way, I don't imagine that's changed. It's possible that my taste in coffee has changed over time, though; back then I didn't really like strong coffee, now I do. The article doesn't deal much with the character of the coffee produced, nor the effect of the huge difference in pressure between a moka pot and a (professional) Gaggia. My tame barrista makes a big deal about how important the correct pressure is. Also: I wonder whether the pressurised boiling chamber results in water that is hotter than 100C, yielding bitter coffee.
- dredmorbius 5y agoBeans and roast matter, and I've found that beans better suited to drip or pressed coffee don't do well in a Moka pot. Dark / espresso roast FTW.
- lormayna 5y agoAs Italian I really suggest to buy a Kamira (https://www.espressokamira.net/ https://www.espressokamira.net/) if you want to make espresso at home without an automatic cofee machine. Coffee made with moka is great, but it's a little different from the espresso. With Kamira, you can have espresso with the simplicity and portability of a moka.
- toyg 5y agoOoh, thanks for this pointer - it could free me from the slavery of Nespresso... TBH it looks like it cannot entirely match the simplicity of Nespresso (I can drop a capsule and push a button in the morning when I don't even know my name, and there is nothing to clean), but it looks much cheaper, definitely easier on the environment, and a great bootstrap story coming from a "difficult" part of Italy.
- 271828182846 5y agothat's an interesting design. never seen that anywhere. do they hold the patent but fail to scale beyond italy? I find usual espresso machines to be too complicated and technical - also too expensive.
- lormayna 5y ago> do they hold the patent but fail to scale beyond italy? Probably yes. It's just a "new" technology, so I don't know what are their plans for the future.
- JanSt 5y agohow does the taste compare to a "normal" espresso machine? I'm currently using ESE pads with a La Piccola machine but want to move on because of all the trash the packaging of pads makes. The taste is quite good though, even compared to a "normal" espresso machine. edit: and how hard is it to find the correct temperature? I've often had the problem of my Bialetti getting to hot on the stove https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5-tBAiOM0&list=PLKby2eyvN3saw3nBL6jV8x7ND0MPYjpCo&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5-tBAiOM0&list=PLKby2eyvN3... looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good thing?
- simon_acca 5y agoFor anybody wondering how a moka pot works, have a look at this neutron imaging of the pot in action: https://youtu.be/VESMU7JfVHU https://youtu.be/VESMU7JfVHU
- jrudolph 5y ago> Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive, difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy perspective. Interestingly that's not my experience with Moka Coffe Pots. The 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat and is almost always too small for the heat source I have available. Electric stove fields are too wide, and camping gas heaters seem to wrap the flames more around the pot than boiling it properly. After the water is steaming, you also need to sustain the heat for a bit to let the steam travel through. In total, it feels like a lot of wasted heat energy for a little bit of coffee. I have a Flare Espresso machine (piston, manually operated) that just requires boiling water that I can get from a more efficient source like a pot matching the stove, a water boiler or even a good thermos (!) when travelling ;-) And the result I get out of that is a "proper" espresso because you can easily hit 10 bars of pressure, by applying gentle pressure on the lever.
- TwoFerMaggie 5y ago> The 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat Do you put cold water in the bottom thingy and heat it up on the stove? When I started using moka pots, I read that you should put pre-boiled hot water in there and then put it on medium to low heat on the stove. Even with that I still find it a bit too quick sometimes.
- TomMasz 5y agoI sold my moka pot at a garage sale when I bought my first espresso machine. Which broke. As did the two others I bought after that one. I'm now using an Aeropress, which is another device that coffee snobs look down on. But I'm seriously considering getting a new moka pot.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pell 5y agoThe Aeropress is really popular with coffee enthusiasts actually. Most third wave shops I know sell Aeropress coffee as one of the handbrew methods.
- boringg 5y agoHonestly - I like the Mokapot my dad uses it religiously - but reading this comment thread makes it sounds like Mokapot is getting its lunch eaten by more wasteful products (and it is) but I wager it is that they aren't in the same product category even though they are all under the coffee umbrella. Also its in a highly differentiated/competitive marketplace over the last 15 years where before that (in its glory days) there wasn't much competition to stack up against. However the reason it is getting its lunch eaten is that people prioritize convenience and the Mokapot is a different product category although under the coffee vertical. A Mokapot takes bit of education and a bit of time in the morning to dial it in. The general coffee consumption market is not interested / technically savy to do this. It's losing because its a more complicated and higher quality product --> different consumers. I don't think those junky nespresso buyers would even be in the mokapot category to begin with. Its similar to how lyft/uber brought more people into riding cabs (also took cab market share).
- aww_dang 5y agoI don't find it complicated to use. Like any other stove top item, you can't leave it on to burn. I can see how this might be difficult for some in a morning rush. When I need a break from the computer, I find the ritual relaxing. Can't see myself buying a Nestle contraption.
- toyg 5y ago> a more complicated and higher quality product [...] those junky nespresso buyers It was inevitable that a thread on coffee would attract the snobbery. I was literally raised with moka and coffee from Italian bars, and Nespresso is absolutely fine. For me, like for loads of other Italian migrants in "barbaric" Northern lands (where "baristas" couldn't make a decent cup to save their lives), it has been an absolute lifesaver. I know plenty of Italian foodies with absolutely no qualms about it. You can criticize the environmental impact (sure), the cost (eh), the commercial model (you in SaaS too?), the tax-dodging, whatever. But when it comes to quality, it's really just the worst hipster snobbery that stops people from accepting that it's actually pretty good. The machines can last for ages with minimal maintenance, and the coffee is good and consistent with zero effort. The rest is just audiophile-level bullcrap.
- ykevinator2 5y agoI had one of these blow up. There was a loud pop and then literally coffee grounds all over the ceiling and cupboards.
- bruprup 5y agoHow? Was it fake? You must understand my amazement. To blow up, the Moka must not have had a functioning safety valve (check the side). Furthermore, the grid must have been so crusted up that, in the days (months!) leading up to the fateful event, it would have taken a very long time to brew what would have necessarily been an extremely bitter coffee. The only was I see this happening is it: - The Moka is fake and it blew up on its first use (since the grid must not have had the holes pressed into it) - You weren't aware that the grid is removable and didn't clean it. I also like to push against the safety valve form the inside every now and then. But if #2 why did you put up with a bitter coffee that would take ages to brew?
- monktastic1 5y agoI'm surprised that the article makes no mention of the fact that even the name Moka comes from Mocha -- a historically important port city in Yemen.
- pjmorris 5y agoWe have a 12-cup Bialetti as our daily driver. Our 6-cup Bialetti is now the travel pot, currently sitting on the inlaw's stove. It goes with us nearly everywhere. I don't take it backpacking, but I have pulled off making coffee with it on top of my backpacking stove. The stack looks like a rocket on the launchpad, ready to topple over, but, so far, it hasn't. Wonderful technology. Like a Guy Clark song, it's 'Stuff That Works.'
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y agoUnfortunately, not for someone like me who would put it on the stove and go read HN, only to be reminded later about it by a smell of burning resin.
- g8oz 5y agoIf your Moka is making bitter coffee you are setting the temperature too high. It's easy to experiment with this. Setting the heat to 4 on a Panasonic induction cooktop gets me a non bitter brew everytime. 5 is okay if I'm in a rush. 6 is always terrible. This is with a Bialetti stainless steel pot. As mentioned elsewhere where in this discussion the Moka does not make coffee through boiling but rather via vapor pressure.
- dagw 5y agoAlso consider your grind size. If it's bitter, try a slightly coarser grind. I see a lot of people using espresso grind for their Moka, but personally I find going somewhere around halfway between espresso and pour over (erring on the side of pour over) to give a much nicer flavour.
- nabilhat 5y agoAnother tip I picked up from can't-remember-where: Heat the water before installing the coffee. A kettle is best but I've preheated the bottom half on the stove as well. Brewing starts right away, without baking the grounds for minutes in advance while the rest of the operation gets up to temp. Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch.
- ValentineC 5y ago> Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch. Yeah, that's probably the most troublesome part of my daily moka experience too. I use a paper towel and grip it at the valve to minimise contact.
- HonestMistake 5y ago> Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch. Pro-tip: get yourself an ove-glove or equivalent knock-off and never burn your hand again: https://www.amazon.com/Ove-Glove-Resistant-Resistance-Household/dp/B000VS63DE/ https://www.amazon.com/Ove-Glove-Resistant-Resistance-Househ...
- analog31 5y agoI religiously set a timer when I start my Bialetti. But like most things done religiously, you will eventually forget. First it produced the coffee. Then the heat rose up to the upper level, boiled the coffee, and sprayed it all out the spout, onto the stove and the wall behind it. Also, it melted the rubber gasket. I was alerted to the smell of burning coffee and rubber. Luckily, I got everything cleaned up, and made a new gasket from bike innertube rubber, which worked OK. Then I discovered that I could buy a new gasket. One sign of a classic product is when you can buy spare parts for it.
- david927 5y agoI always wondered why they didn't combine a Moka pot with an electric kettle. It would work much faster, would be safer (can turn off after time if you forget water), and can max the temperature at 80 degrees Celsius so you don't get bitter coffee. Also, it could have different sizes for the coffee grind for when you have company over.
- yissp 5y agoBialetti does seem to make one https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/coffee-makers/moka/moka-elettrika.html https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/coffee-makers/moka/moka-elett...
- throwaway984393 5y agoCame here to comment the same - but it looks like they exist! https://www.thedrinksmaker.com/best-electric-moka-pot/ https://www.thedrinksmaker.com/best-electric-moka-pot/
- klyrs 5y agoFor the longest time, I used a GSI single-shot moka. It's sold as camping gear; they sell little cups for it... but it's a terrible setup the handle tends to hang over the stove flame and then you can't drink your coffee. Instead, I used turkish teacups of an appropriate size. I used it camping exactly once (used enough gas to boil an entire pot of water), but it's great for use at home. The best coffee I've ever had came out of that thing, cooked on a wood stove, the temperature was just so and the coffee came out one pendulous drip at a time while I sat next to the stove doing homework one cold winter day... Most of us don't have 15 minutes to wait for our coffee in the morning, but that shot was absolutely divine. Of course, I never did get the wood stove to exactly that temperature again, but now that I'm working at home, it would be worth experimenting with a PID controller. These days, I use a phin filter and a hot-water pot. Highly optimized for getting me out the door quickly -- I can wash the filter, make a coffee, feed the cat and the kid all in a flurry and it's always to taste.
- noneeeed 5y agoSometimes I think the thing I want more than anything in the world is the time to spend 15 minutes making a coffee in the morning. I feel like you've just given me my new life goal, a career and lifestyle that enables that.
- klyrs 5y agoWell, that's kinda the thing that I'm realizing. I want my first coffee about... 10 minutes before I wake up. Add the chaos of getting the kid to school, and I'm not retiring the phin filter any time soon. But, sitting at home, I very well may fashion a rig on my desk that makes the perfect low&slow espresso for my second cup. And, hey, that's a lower dose of caffeine, so I can justify a third cup!
- 1_player 5y agoAs someone that isn't content with their life, but has 15 minutes to brew coffee in the morning and savour the experience, you've made me appreciate how fortunate I actually am. Thanks. Your goal is closer than you might think: I've found the time to brew my coffee when I quit the 9-5 rat race and I do remote consulting now, working my own hours. Good luck.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- SergeAx 5y agoMoka Pot is essential on a sailboat, where all you have is a gas stove and 12V car socket under sail or on the ahchor. Every Italian charter boat has one onboard as a first class equipment alongside chartplotter and compass.
- traeregan 5y ago> Cuban coffee in a Cuban or Cuban-American home is almost always made with a moka pot; the Cuban concoction cafecito is made by quickly whipping the first few drops of moka pot coffee with sugar, creating a paste that both flavors the coffee and simulates a classic espresso foam. We make cafecitos with a Bialetti moka pot in my house. It took quite a few tries to get it right, the sugar paste especially, but they're a real treat now that we have it figured out. Here's our recipe and a few notes: https://snippi.com/s/jrn4ig3 https://snippi.com/s/jrn4ig3 Note that we're using brown sugar instead of table sugar. This is simply a preference. Enjoy!
- traeregan 5y agoTo add to the above, if you have a Nespresso machine at home then try the Scuro double espresso + a hefty amount of your sweetener of choice (I like maple syrup). It produces a very similar cup to the cafecito recipe in my last comment.
- jmkr 5y agoUsed to love my moka pot but got rid of it. This post inspired me to get another one. Any recommendations for fair trade coffee? I usually drink equal exchange, but it's not the best coffee.
- jskrn 5y agoOk so is a Moka pot for making coffee in the North American sense (drip coffee), or espresso (even if it is not at as high pressure), or something in between? I do pour overs daily and have never used a moka pot.
- oats 5y agoIt's something in between IMO. A moka pot cannot produce the pressures necessary for making traditional espresso, but it does produce a strong, slightly viscous coffee and occasionally some crema. A lovely brew on its own!
- malermeister 5y agoSomething in between :) It's lower pressure than espresso, but it is under a bit of pressure
- 4WIW 5y agoMy personal experience: if espresso machine is 100 then Wacaco Minipresso would be 93, Moka 53, Airpress 52, anything else <50. This is assuming same beans. As other people mentioned, beans quality is important. Assuming freshly roasted and ground beans are 100, freshly ground 1-month old roast is 50 and 1 month old grind is 25
- jsdwarf 5y agoItaly could have been one country that introduced coffee to Europe, but let's not forget that the first Austrian Kaffeehaus opened in the 17th century as well (using coffee stashes obtained after the 2nd Turkish siege in 1680). What truly killed Bialetti Coffee Pots is the sharp decline of gas stoves in Europe. Electric stoves heat up much slower and turn coffee preparation in pots into a lengthy procedure.
- yumraj 5y agoAm I the only one that has an IKEA stainless steel moka ?
- thesausageking 5y agoI have the same one. It's great. Simple, well-made, and makes a good cup. And I prefer stainless given the potential health risks of aluminum.
- yumraj 5y agoBTW, talking of coffee, if you haven’t tried roasting your own coffee, you’re missing something. I’m not a coffee snob and can’t tell difference between regions and so on. But coffee fresh roasted, using an air popcorn maker in my case, tastes amazingly better than anything else. I just get green coffee samplers since I don’t care about one region vs another, just fresh roast, wait a day or two, fresh ground gives great results.
- pepoluan 5y agoIt's a great device. For me _personally_ I much prefer my coffee to be "kopi tubruk", though: Pour boiling water over medium-ground coffee. Might not be for everyone, but that's what's great: There is no one 'correct' way to do it. There are tradeoffs and you choose which tradeoff you want.
- tibudiyanto 5y agoah found a fellow indonesian! tubruk always have a part in my heart! its like frenchpress with super fine grind
- forinti 5y agoIt does make good coffee, but it makes it harder to restart the process because you have to wait for it to cool down or you cool it down under the tap.
- znpy 5y ago> As of 2016, the New York Times notes that over 90 percent of Italian homes had one. It would be more correct to say that 90% of italian homes have at least one... We for example have three: one is the one we're phasing out (three cups), the new one (four cups) and we have a snoopy-themed moka that I don't really want to put in contact with fire.