4 ms·

Arguably becoming fabless and manufacturing at TSMC is what brought AMD its edge over Intel and its recent success.

cptskippy 5y ago
I don't think there's any debate. GloFo abandoned 7nm research 3 years after TSMC shipped. TSMC has since pushed out 6nm and 5nm while GloFo is just languishing in 12/14nm.
- selectodude 5y ago
  They’re not languishing, they just stopped trying.
- anfilt 5y ago
  GloFlo is still doing some pretty cutting edge stuff for specialized processes. There is more to semi-conductors than just the highest density.
agumonkey 5y ago
It was a difficult seat to be in and they managed to use what they had extremely well. Let's see how they fare now.
to11mtm 5y ago
Yeah this one is hard to look at, especially because for a while it looked like it was a very bad move for AMD. In retrospect it was still a kinda bad contract for them for a while (IIRC, GloFo couldn't deliver on process for Bulldozer, which led to poor yields/heat/etc, killing demand, but AMD had contracts with GloFo stipulating penalties for not hitting certain order numbers.) But at the same time, they were then unshackled as you said; As time went on and they could move more volume to TSMC it wound up helping them out immensely. It's kinda worth remembering too though, that even at their 'peak' in the early 2000s AMD was 6-12 months behind Intel on process tech if you go by releases. Given the trouble Intel has had keeping up one could only imagine where AMD would be now.
totalZero 5y ago
The reason AMD went fabless had nothing to do with edge. It was a move to prevent bankruptcy. Intel fell behind because of its process woes and managerial issues. They weren't outworked, they played themselves.
- mjevans 5y ago
  Only half the story. AMD also needed to do that due to antitrust shenanigans that harmed AMD. In my recollection of history, this was litigated in court and (I think?) eventually settled before a verdict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices#Litigation_with_Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices#Litigat... "n 2005, following an investigation, the Japan Federal Trade Commission found Intel guilty of a number of violations. On June 27, 2005, AMD won an antitrust suit against Intel in Japan, and on the same day, AMD filed a broad antitrust complaint against Intel in the U.S. Federal District Court in Delaware. The complaint alleges systematic use of secret rebates, special discounts, threats, and other means used by Intel to lock AMD processors out of the global market. Since the start of this action, the court has issued subpoenas to major computer manufacturers including Acer, Dell, Lenovo, HP and Toshiba. In November 2009, Intel agreed to pay AMD $1.25bn and renew a five-year patent cross-licensing agreement as part of a deal to settle all outstanding legal disputes between them." Unfortunately by that point the damage had been done. Fabs are an extremely expensive, normally lower margin, business. Risk averse companies probably can't get into that game. Even with Apple they appear to have focused on something of a partnership with TSMC rather than their own fab.

I don't think there's any debate. GloFo abandoned 7nm research 3 years after TSMC shipped. TSMC has since pushed out 6nm and 5nm while GloFo is just languishing in 12/14nm.

selectodude 5y ago
They’re not languishing, they just stopped trying.
anfilt 5y ago
GloFlo is still doing some pretty cutting edge stuff for specialized processes. There is more to semi-conductors than just the highest density.

agumonkey 5y ago

It was a difficult seat to be in and they managed to use what they had extremely well. Let's see how they fare now.

to11mtm 5y ago

Yeah this one is hard to look at, especially because for a while it looked like it was a very bad move for AMD. In retrospect it was still a kinda bad contract for them for a while (IIRC, GloFo couldn't deliver on process for Bulldozer, which led to poor yields/heat/etc, killing demand, but AMD had contracts with GloFo stipulating penalties for not hitting certain order numbers.) But at the same time, they were then unshackled as you said; As time went on and they could move more volume to TSMC it wound up helping them out immensely. It's kinda worth remembering too though, that even at their 'peak' in the early 2000s AMD was 6-12 months behind Intel on process tech if you go by releases. Given the trouble Intel has had keeping up one could only imagine where AMD would be now.

totalZero 5y ago

The reason AMD went fabless had nothing to do with edge. It was a move to prevent bankruptcy. Intel fell behind because of its process woes and managerial issues. They weren't outworked, they played themselves.

mjevans 5y ago
Only half the story. AMD also needed to do that due to antitrust shenanigans that harmed AMD. In my recollection of history, this was litigated in court and (I think?) eventually settled before a verdict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices#Litigation_with_Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices#Litigat... "n 2005, following an investigation, the Japan Federal Trade Commission found Intel guilty of a number of violations. On June 27, 2005, AMD won an antitrust suit against Intel in Japan, and on the same day, AMD filed a broad antitrust complaint against Intel in the U.S. Federal District Court in Delaware. The complaint alleges systematic use of secret rebates, special discounts, threats, and other means used by Intel to lock AMD processors out of the global market. Since the start of this action, the court has issued subpoenas to major computer manufacturers including Acer, Dell, Lenovo, HP and Toshiba. In November 2009, Intel agreed to pay AMD $1.25bn and renew a five-year patent cross-licensing agreement as part of a deal to settle all outstanding legal disputes between them." Unfortunately by that point the damage had been done. Fabs are an extremely expensive, normally lower margin, business. Risk averse companies probably can't get into that game. Even with Apple they appear to have focused on something of a partnership with TSMC rather than their own fab.