8 ms·

Lots of people all over the world do shopping for multiple days of groceries without having a car. It's not that hard - a large bag for veg, a somewhat smaller

Lots of people all over the world do shopping for multiple days of groceries without having a car. It's not that hard - a large bag for veg, a somewhat smaller bag for protein, maybe a third bag for miscellaneous. Especially if you eat a reasonably traditional Japanese diet, it'd be easy - rice and miso you only buy once a month or so depending. Groceries in the West take up so much space because they are all prepackaged. A couple boxes of cereal and a loaf of bread takes up as much space as a week worth of veg. Using dishclothes and a washlet instead of paper towels or (most) toilet paper and you've got another couple volumetrically huge items off your shopping list

DoreenMichele 5y ago
The other thing that happens is that as you walk more and get healthier, it gets easier over time to carry the groceries and you tend to eat less. I experienced this firsthand when I gave up my car: Over time, I had more strength and stamina and also less appetite. America has an epidemic of obesity and I think for some people that fact makes it unimaginable to live without a car. But I think cause and effect run the other way: So many Americans are overweight and frustrated with their lives in part because we have made it so hard in this country to run errands on foot. It has become a vicious cycle. You reverse it by just starting. Let some people run errands on foot and by car. Target the low-hanging fruit, the people (like lv) who say "I could do that if I only had this small bit of help." Let them take the leap. Take the gains you can access instead of quibbling about "But that doesn't work for everyone!" Nothing works for everyone and ruining our planet is working for no one.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Not everyone lives in pleasant climates for walking around on foot and doing errands. Sure, maybe in the Bay Area or New England it’s fine, but you do not want to go run errands outside in the sweltering heat of the south. And do you even know what the Midwest is? Young and restless.
  - simiones 5y ago
    You're greatly overestimating the difficulty of living car-less in a city designed for it. Even in all the places you are discussing, people used to do this all the time in the times before AC was invented. It's true that there are places like Phoenix, AZ, where it's not really possible to survive (or at least thrive) without constant AC, but this is currently the exception even in the South.
  - detaro 5y ago
    really, your response to parent comment is ... "but it doesn't work for everyone"?
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I was born and raised in Georgia. I am a former military wife. I have lived in Kansas, Texas, Germany, California and Washington state. I currently live without a car in an area that gets 76 inches of rain annually. I typically describe it as biblical flood levels of rain. It's a lot of rain. I routinely go outside in a t-shirt and sweatpants in all kinds of weather, including freezing temps and snow. Weather is intimidating to people who spend almost all their time indoors and in a vehicle. If you actually spend time outside, you know how to stay warm enough, how to mitigate exposure to wind, rain, etc. And I'm seriously handicapped by a condition that is known to negatively impact my ability to effectively modulate my body temperature. So I'm not especially impressed by such arguments. I don't think they have much, if any, merit. Though I would like to see more awnings in the downtown area where I live. I would appreciate that as a means to limit my exposure to rain and I think it's very doable.
    - stavros 5y ago
      I live in Greece and our weather ranges from 40 C to -20 C. We walk to get groceries in all kinds of weather. Sure, you won't go in the middle of the day during a heat wave, but after the sun is set is not bad. As you said, you just learn to handle the weather. Walking to the super market is a very everyday thing for us.
      - 5y ago
riffraff 5y ago
I shop more than once a week (it's part of my morning walk/routine), and I concur that it's perfectly doable without a car, so I agree with you on the general point. But: why would a loaf of bread take up much space? The "packaging" there is just a bit of paper, and it has much higher density than most vegetables, I think? I.e. a loaf is enough bread for 4 people for a couple days, the equivalent amount of "non-compressed" vegetables like fennel/lettuce/zucchini would be much larger. Only some crucifers or large pumpkins would be comparable, and potatoes/yams. Maybe it's a US thing about packaged bread? I live in the EU, so I might be thinkinf of something else.
- SECProto 5y ago
  > But: why would a loaf of bread take up much space? The "packaging" there is just a bit of paper, and it has much higher density than most vegetables, I think? I dont think vegetables are an accurate comparison. By listing bread and cereal, I was thinking specifically of common north american breakfast/lunch foods which are largely starch-based, and quite low density. As comparators I was thinking of dried rice and pasta, which are quite dense when transporting home from the grocery store. > I.e. a loaf is enough bread for 4 people for a couple days, I clearly eat a lot more bread than you :) I eat two or three (smallish) loaves a week for just me (often toast+peanut butter for breakfast, sandwich of some variety for lunch, and maybe another slice at some point for a snack)
readflaggedcomm 5y ago
For me, size of American groceries isn't a problem. Heat is the main problem. But when rarely it's cool, stores along heavy foot-trafficked routes are extremely hostile to carrying bags, which makes it inefficient to bother.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

The other thing that happens is that as you walk more and get healthier, it gets easier over time to carry the groceries and you tend to eat less. I experienced this firsthand when I gave up my car: Over time, I had more strength and stamina and also less appetite. America has an epidemic of obesity and I think for some people that fact makes it unimaginable to live without a car. But I think cause and effect run the other way: So many Americans are overweight and frustrated with their lives in part because we have made it so hard in this country to run errands on foot. It has become a vicious cycle. You reverse it by just starting. Let some people run errands on foot and by car. Target the low-hanging fruit, the people (like lv) who say "I could do that if I only had this small bit of help." Let them take the leap. Take the gains you can access instead of quibbling about "But that doesn't work for everyone!" Nothing works for everyone and ruining our planet is working for no one.

xwdv 5y ago
Not everyone lives in pleasant climates for walking around on foot and doing errands. Sure, maybe in the Bay Area or New England it’s fine, but you do not want to go run errands outside in the sweltering heat of the south. And do you even know what the Midwest is? Young and restless.
- simiones 5y ago
  You're greatly overestimating the difficulty of living car-less in a city designed for it. Even in all the places you are discussing, people used to do this all the time in the times before AC was invented. It's true that there are places like Phoenix, AZ, where it's not really possible to survive (or at least thrive) without constant AC, but this is currently the exception even in the South.
- detaro 5y ago
  really, your response to parent comment is ... "but it doesn't work for everyone"?
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  I was born and raised in Georgia. I am a former military wife. I have lived in Kansas, Texas, Germany, California and Washington state. I currently live without a car in an area that gets 76 inches of rain annually. I typically describe it as biblical flood levels of rain. It's a lot of rain. I routinely go outside in a t-shirt and sweatpants in all kinds of weather, including freezing temps and snow. Weather is intimidating to people who spend almost all their time indoors and in a vehicle. If you actually spend time outside, you know how to stay warm enough, how to mitigate exposure to wind, rain, etc. And I'm seriously handicapped by a condition that is known to negatively impact my ability to effectively modulate my body temperature. So I'm not especially impressed by such arguments. I don't think they have much, if any, merit. Though I would like to see more awnings in the downtown area where I live. I would appreciate that as a means to limit my exposure to rain and I think it's very doable.
  - stavros 5y ago
    I live in Greece and our weather ranges from 40 C to -20 C. We walk to get groceries in all kinds of weather. Sure, you won't go in the middle of the day during a heat wave, but after the sun is set is not bad. As you said, you just learn to handle the weather. Walking to the super market is a very everyday thing for us.
    - 5y ago

riffraff 5y ago

I shop more than once a week (it's part of my morning walk/routine), and I concur that it's perfectly doable without a car, so I agree with you on the general point. But: why would a loaf of bread take up much space? The "packaging" there is just a bit of paper, and it has much higher density than most vegetables, I think? I.e. a loaf is enough bread for 4 people for a couple days, the equivalent amount of "non-compressed" vegetables like fennel/lettuce/zucchini would be much larger. Only some crucifers or large pumpkins would be comparable, and potatoes/yams. Maybe it's a US thing about packaged bread? I live in the EU, so I might be thinkinf of something else.

SECProto 5y ago
> But: why would a loaf of bread take up much space? The "packaging" there is just a bit of paper, and it has much higher density than most vegetables, I think? I dont think vegetables are an accurate comparison. By listing bread and cereal, I was thinking specifically of common north american breakfast/lunch foods which are largely starch-based, and quite low density. As comparators I was thinking of dried rice and pasta, which are quite dense when transporting home from the grocery store. > I.e. a loaf is enough bread for 4 people for a couple days, I clearly eat a lot more bread than you :) I eat two or three (smallish) loaves a week for just me (often toast+peanut butter for breakfast, sandwich of some variety for lunch, and maybe another slice at some point for a snack)

readflaggedcomm 5y ago

For me, size of American groceries isn't a problem. Heat is the main problem. But when rarely it's cool, stores along heavy foot-trafficked routes are extremely hostile to carrying bags, which makes it inefficient to bother.