9 ms·

I live in the Japanese countryside and I absolutely need a car for living, but it makes me sad to realize that it would take almost nothing for me to get rid of

by Iv 5y ago

I live in the Japanese countryside and I absolutely need a car for living, but it makes me sad to realize that it would take almost nothing for me to get rid of the car. I spend my driving time 90% on a single road where all the places I need are. I spend 9% on another similar big axis. I occasionally go to Tokyo but to do so I park my car at the free parking on the highway bus station. A regular bus on the two axis I use would allow me to totally get rig of a car. I am pretty sure we could automate such a bus given today's tech.

chapium 5y ago
You might want to check out a pedelelec to see if it fits your need.
ekianjo 5y ago
> A regular bus on the two axis I use would allow me to totally get rig of a car. Not if you need to carry a lot of stuff like groceries for a whole family. Unless you decide to do a bus trip every single day, losing time while waiting for the next bus the arrive.
- nativeit 5y ago
  I admit that your point is valid in the scope of modern living. I do think this is reflective of some of what has been lost in the last century, however. With greater routine access to artisans, shops and grocers, the ability to obtain fresher, healthier ingredients in smaller quantities more frequently is a natural consequence. The sort of diets and lifestyles that we (American culture specifically) still sort of fetishizes through Food Network, A&E, and YouTube food entertainment series are enabled through the greater availability and access to Main Street shops that cater to narrower markets like bakers, delicatessens, butchers, farmers' markets, and general stores. Granted this isn't automatically a panacea, and may not necessarily scale to modern populaces effectively, but I am of the opinion that it's a component of a healthier and more sustainable way of living in areas that could support it.
- SECProto 5y ago
  Lots of people all over the world do shopping for multiple days of groceries without having a car. It's not that hard - a large bag for veg, a somewhat smaller bag for protein, maybe a third bag for miscellaneous. Especially if you eat a reasonably traditional Japanese diet, it'd be easy - rice and miso you only buy once a month or so depending. Groceries in the West take up so much space because they are all prepackaged. A couple boxes of cereal and a loaf of bread takes up as much space as a week worth of veg. Using dishclothes and a washlet instead of paper towels or (most) toilet paper and you've got another couple volumetrically huge items off your shopping list
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    The other thing that happens is that as you walk more and get healthier, it gets easier over time to carry the groceries and you tend to eat less. I experienced this firsthand when I gave up my car: Over time, I had more strength and stamina and also less appetite. America has an epidemic of obesity and I think for some people that fact makes it unimaginable to live without a car. But I think cause and effect run the other way: So many Americans are overweight and frustrated with their lives in part because we have made it so hard in this country to run errands on foot. It has become a vicious cycle. You reverse it by just starting. Let some people run errands on foot and by car. Target the low-hanging fruit, the people (like lv) who say "I could do that if I only had this small bit of help." Let them take the leap. Take the gains you can access instead of quibbling about "But that doesn't work for everyone!" Nothing works for everyone and ruining our planet is working for no one.
    - xwdv 5y ago
      Not everyone lives in pleasant climates for walking around on foot and doing errands. Sure, maybe in the Bay Area or New England it’s fine, but you do not want to go run errands outside in the sweltering heat of the south. And do you even know what the Midwest is? Young and restless.
      - simiones 5y ago
        You're greatly overestimating the difficulty of living car-less in a city designed for it. Even in all the places you are discussing, people used to do this all the time in the times before AC was invented. It's true that there are places like Phoenix, AZ, where it's not really possible to survive (or at least thrive) without constant AC, but this is currently the exception even in the South.
- nativeit 5y ago
  Plus, we could go back to having our milk delivered! What a weird notion that is in these modern times.
  - puchatek 5y ago
    Getting your groceries delivered is quite normal here in NL. We like to order larger quantities of things in cans or dry stuff like legumes delivered, then still go to the neighborhood supermarket for fresh produce, either on foot or by bike. I never owned a car and always saw it as a tremendous waste of money. But it can be handy sometimes and in such occasions i use car sharing services which have a similar level it convenience: i can reach 2 cars on foot and two more by bike within 5-7 minutes and while i need to reserve upfront, 99% of the time i decide i need one there will be one available. Worst case is i have to ride my bike a little further.
- n8cpdx 5y ago
  Grocery delivery has been a great help, and I think probably makes more sense in general, but definitely so in cities/downtowns. Still, I can get most, if not all, shopping for one done with a backpack and two feet. I don’t think it would be that different with a small family, and you can reasonably recruit family members to help. Growing up, my mom would take me shopping and I was always desperate to help (or “help” in the case of wanting to push the carriage). I think most kids at least start out this way and would be happy to carry a few bags assuming the journey isn’t too arduous, and it will make them healthier than spending that time with the PlayStation.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    For me, the closest retail of any value is right around 3 miles each way. Not a convenient walk if wanting to buy more than a backpack's worth. I picked up an eBike, and now I can get there just as fast as if I had a car. I tried the grocery delivery for awhile. It was great at first until they all switched to Instacart, and now it's more expensive and less quality service. This was the main factor in deciding on getting an eBike to just stop using Instacart.
  - hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
    its a backpack and two feet everyday for a family :)
- naravara 5y ago
  When you live in a walkable area your grocery bags become smaller and your trips more frequent. You go to smaller neighborhood markets for your day to day things like milk, meat, and produce. You get dry goods a little at a time during your other more frequent trips. You make bus trips to get to work or do stuff anyway so it’s just a stop on your way home, not a big deal.
- n4r9 5y ago
  You just need better equipment. In the UK you often see older people going around the shops with their own trolley-bag like this: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PXXDEM/elderly-woman-walking-while-pulling-a-shopping-trolley-in-the-uk-side-view-PXXDEM.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PXXDEM/elderly-woman-walking-while...
- krageon 5y ago
  I've always been able to buy groceries for a whole family while walking (back when going to a supermarket was still normal), what exactly do you see as the major roadblock for something like that? Bring bags or maybe a (large) backpack and some packing skills, you will be fine. You can even take one of those bag on wheels type things if you cannot or will not carry heavy weights - I certainly have if I knew I needed a lot of drinks for a party or something similar.
  - Agingcoder 5y ago
    Where I live (Paris) , people use 'bag on wheels'. I'm able to do almost all my grocery shopping with it.
    - hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
      ah, the old "bag on wheels" trick. eight thousand years really haven't caught up to it yet.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  This is why it's so nice to have supermarkets at walking or at least short cycling distance from where people live. You don't need to get groceries for a week at a time then.
lovemenot 5y ago
Your experience is relevant to me. I cannot drive but am about to move from Tokyo to Nagano. It's close to a local station, so I may be able to manage. Until I try though I won't know.
presentation 5y ago
How far apart are the places you typically go to? Sounds like an e-bike might do the trick for most days.
- Iv 5y ago
  e-bikes dont drive by themselves, are slow, dangerous (the roads are very narrow with no sidewalk) open to the rain and have shit carrying capacity. And I say that as a fan of e-bikes.
  - presentation 5y ago
    I mean, are you intending to carry a ton of stuff on the bus? If cargo is that big a deal you can also look for a cargo bike. And buses aren't exactly known for being super duper speedy, when I ride my normal bike around Tokyo I'm generally faster from point A to B than actual personal cars (to be fair its super dense and slow here for cars). Agreed that it does suck in the rain though, and maybe people drive faster out where you live (I personally prefer biking on the road here in Tokyo, way more hazardous weaving through people on the sidewalks).

by Iv 5y ago

chapium 5y ago

You might want to check out a pedelelec to see if it fits your need.

ekianjo 5y ago

> A regular bus on the two axis I use would allow me to totally get rig of a car. Not if you need to carry a lot of stuff like groceries for a whole family. Unless you decide to do a bus trip every single day, losing time while waiting for the next bus the arrive.

nativeit 5y ago
I admit that your point is valid in the scope of modern living. I do think this is reflective of some of what has been lost in the last century, however. With greater routine access to artisans, shops and grocers, the ability to obtain fresher, healthier ingredients in smaller quantities more frequently is a natural consequence. The sort of diets and lifestyles that we (American culture specifically) still sort of fetishizes through Food Network, A&E, and YouTube food entertainment series are enabled through the greater availability and access to Main Street shops that cater to narrower markets like bakers, delicatessens, butchers, farmers' markets, and general stores. Granted this isn't automatically a panacea, and may not necessarily scale to modern populaces effectively, but I am of the opinion that it's a component of a healthier and more sustainable way of living in areas that could support it.
SECProto 5y ago
Lots of people all over the world do shopping for multiple days of groceries without having a car. It's not that hard - a large bag for veg, a somewhat smaller bag for protein, maybe a third bag for miscellaneous. Especially if you eat a reasonably traditional Japanese diet, it'd be easy - rice and miso you only buy once a month or so depending. Groceries in the West take up so much space because they are all prepackaged. A couple boxes of cereal and a loaf of bread takes up as much space as a week worth of veg. Using dishclothes and a washlet instead of paper towels or (most) toilet paper and you've got another couple volumetrically huge items off your shopping list
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  The other thing that happens is that as you walk more and get healthier, it gets easier over time to carry the groceries and you tend to eat less. I experienced this firsthand when I gave up my car: Over time, I had more strength and stamina and also less appetite. America has an epidemic of obesity and I think for some people that fact makes it unimaginable to live without a car. But I think cause and effect run the other way: So many Americans are overweight and frustrated with their lives in part because we have made it so hard in this country to run errands on foot. It has become a vicious cycle. You reverse it by just starting. Let some people run errands on foot and by car. Target the low-hanging fruit, the people (like lv) who say "I could do that if I only had this small bit of help." Let them take the leap. Take the gains you can access instead of quibbling about "But that doesn't work for everyone!" Nothing works for everyone and ruining our planet is working for no one.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Not everyone lives in pleasant climates for walking around on foot and doing errands. Sure, maybe in the Bay Area or New England it’s fine, but you do not want to go run errands outside in the sweltering heat of the south. And do you even know what the Midwest is? Young and restless.
    - simiones 5y ago
      You're greatly overestimating the difficulty of living car-less in a city designed for it. Even in all the places you are discussing, people used to do this all the time in the times before AC was invented. It's true that there are places like Phoenix, AZ, where it's not really possible to survive (or at least thrive) without constant AC, but this is currently the exception even in the South.
nativeit 5y ago
Plus, we could go back to having our milk delivered! What a weird notion that is in these modern times.
- puchatek 5y ago
  Getting your groceries delivered is quite normal here in NL. We like to order larger quantities of things in cans or dry stuff like legumes delivered, then still go to the neighborhood supermarket for fresh produce, either on foot or by bike. I never owned a car and always saw it as a tremendous waste of money. But it can be handy sometimes and in such occasions i use car sharing services which have a similar level it convenience: i can reach 2 cars on foot and two more by bike within 5-7 minutes and while i need to reserve upfront, 99% of the time i decide i need one there will be one available. Worst case is i have to ride my bike a little further.
n8cpdx 5y ago
Grocery delivery has been a great help, and I think probably makes more sense in general, but definitely so in cities/downtowns. Still, I can get most, if not all, shopping for one done with a backpack and two feet. I don’t think it would be that different with a small family, and you can reasonably recruit family members to help. Growing up, my mom would take me shopping and I was always desperate to help (or “help” in the case of wanting to push the carriage). I think most kids at least start out this way and would be happy to carry a few bags assuming the journey isn’t too arduous, and it will make them healthier than spending that time with the PlayStation.
- dylan604 5y ago
  For me, the closest retail of any value is right around 3 miles each way. Not a convenient walk if wanting to buy more than a backpack's worth. I picked up an eBike, and now I can get there just as fast as if I had a car. I tried the grocery delivery for awhile. It was great at first until they all switched to Instacart, and now it's more expensive and less quality service. This was the main factor in deciding on getting an eBike to just stop using Instacart.
- hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
  its a backpack and two feet everyday for a family :)
naravara 5y ago
When you live in a walkable area your grocery bags become smaller and your trips more frequent. You go to smaller neighborhood markets for your day to day things like milk, meat, and produce. You get dry goods a little at a time during your other more frequent trips. You make bus trips to get to work or do stuff anyway so it’s just a stop on your way home, not a big deal.
n4r9 5y ago
You just need better equipment. In the UK you often see older people going around the shops with their own trolley-bag like this: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PXXDEM/elderly-woman-walking-while-pulling-a-shopping-trolley-in-the-uk-side-view-PXXDEM.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PXXDEM/elderly-woman-walking-while...
krageon 5y ago
I've always been able to buy groceries for a whole family while walking (back when going to a supermarket was still normal), what exactly do you see as the major roadblock for something like that? Bring bags or maybe a (large) backpack and some packing skills, you will be fine. You can even take one of those bag on wheels type things if you cannot or will not carry heavy weights - I certainly have if I knew I needed a lot of drinks for a party or something similar.
- Agingcoder 5y ago
  Where I live (Paris) , people use 'bag on wheels'. I'm able to do almost all my grocery shopping with it.
  - hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
    ah, the old "bag on wheels" trick. eight thousand years really haven't caught up to it yet.
Scarblac 5y ago
This is why it's so nice to have supermarkets at walking or at least short cycling distance from where people live. You don't need to get groceries for a week at a time then.

lovemenot 5y ago

Your experience is relevant to me. I cannot drive but am about to move from Tokyo to Nagano. It's close to a local station, so I may be able to manage. Until I try though I won't know.

presentation 5y ago

How far apart are the places you typically go to? Sounds like an e-bike might do the trick for most days.

Iv 5y ago
e-bikes dont drive by themselves, are slow, dangerous (the roads are very narrow with no sidewalk) open to the rain and have shit carrying capacity. And I say that as a fan of e-bikes.
- presentation 5y ago
  I mean, are you intending to carry a ton of stuff on the bus? If cargo is that big a deal you can also look for a cargo bike. And buses aren't exactly known for being super duper speedy, when I ride my normal bike around Tokyo I'm generally faster from point A to B than actual personal cars (to be fair its super dense and slow here for cars). Agreed that it does suck in the rain though, and maybe people drive faster out where you live (I personally prefer biking on the road here in Tokyo, way more hazardous weaving through people on the sidewalks).