8 ms·

> All the sensible textbook titles were already taken. Actual joy not guaranteed. Like a lot of people (I imagine) I made it through a CS bachelors program not

> All the sensible textbook titles were already taken. Actual joy not guaranteed. Like a lot of people (I imagine) I made it through a CS bachelors program not really ‘getting’ the discrete math combinatorics part. Crypto is an area where those concepts really really matter. It’s great to see this resource available!

hackcasual 5y ago
I learned so much math when I looked into RLWE based lattice crypto. Some times it just takes a distinct use case to have something click
k__ 5y ago
Somehow discrete math was the only math I understood in CS. Calculus, on the other hand, completely eluded me.
- copperx 5y ago
  How did you graduate with a CS degree?
  - eru 5y ago
    Depends on which country you are in. Not sure eg in Germany you have to do that much calculus for a CS degree. (Though, what do you mean by calculus? I assume you mean integration and differentiation and real numbers and stuff? Or something else?)
  - kccqzy 5y ago
    In my school, to get the CS degree you only need as much calculus as needed to get to the second Physics course, which covers electromagnetism. You don't need a deep understanding of calculus. A lot of applications of calculus in the course can be handled by rote memorization. I took extra calculus classes from the math department. Those are way harder than what you need for introductory physics.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    My college just removed Calculus as a requirement...Although that could be partially because they have such a crazy high dropout rate for the compsci program. Graduation rate at the school as a whole is < 50%. I think they average like 10-30 comp sci majors a semester with an average student population of 4,000. Most students get scared off by the psychotic "teach as though this is an ivy league school" new teachers who get fired in two to four semesters because not a single student gives them a positive review.
  - k__ 5y ago
    Persistence.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    Not op but for fwiw, in my university you only needed about as much calculus for ComSci as you would learn in IB/AP High school courses with a good prof anyway. Maybe a bit more but it was mostly a repeat. (I recall one day in 3rd year calculus course realizing "wait a second... I don't need to be here!". I just kept signing up for calculus every year since 11th grade and suddenly realized I don't need, don't want, and don't like the class nor the prof I was in, and that was one pain less I could instill upon myself :)
  - smaudet 5y ago
    As others have mentioned 'calculus' can mean one of five or six classes (I, II, III, advanced, diffyQ, probably more), basic differentiation is not hard, most of calc is some tricks a computer can learn or do better. At least to my knowledge there is no 'theory of calculus' which allows one to solve generic integrals or differentials, calc is as much an unrelated art to comp sci as learning to play chess will help with accounting.
- __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
  If the whole of math were represented by the surface of the planet, "discrete math" would be more than half of it. Calculus (i.e. differentiation/integration on the reals) on the other hand, would be a city. Perhaps a very populated city, but just one. It's a shame that match curriculum for non-math-majors is an all-roads-lead-to-calculus affair. I think we scare a lot of potentially talented people away from math with that approach.
  - cperciva 5y ago
    "Calculus" is just the most accessible corner of the broader field of Analysis. And a lot of "discrete" mathematics ends up drawing upon analysis (especially complex analysis) as you delve deeper.
  - garmaine 5y ago
    I'm not sure why you think that? Basically all of physics, chemistry, and other physical sciences is calculus. Calculus is the mathematics of rates of change, and basically all physical science is the study of change. Discrete math is very important to computer science. But in the rest of the world, calculus (and differential equations) dominate.
    - 123pie123 5y ago
      Double integration - brings not very nice memories back of my hand aching from writing upto 5 pages of workings out
      - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
        It was especially bad in quantum mechanics where they made us do it the hard way (using calculus) before showing us the easy way (using noncommutative algebra).
    - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
      Maybe we're having a definition difference. My understanding of the term "discrete math" is that it refers to any math whose characters aren't part of a continuum. Anything to do with numbers besides the reals. Anything to to with finite sets. Anything to do with groups, rings, polynomials, trees, graphs, ordinals, lattices, compass-straightedge-constructions, polygons, knots, categories, sheaves, topological spaces, vector spaces, and anything to do with oddities like map coloring or plane tiling, and a lot else too. It's a course in "everything else" for students that are being pigeonholed into a mathematical specialization by the fact that it's been fashionable to use real numbers to describe the world since Newton.
- christophilus 5y ago
  For what it’s worth, I had the damndest time with Calculus until I got a good professor. When he explained it, everything clicked. A good teacher makes a massive difference. It might be worth giving it another go.
- nabeelms 5y ago
  My book recommendation for learning calculus would be Calculus Basic Concepts For High School by Tarasov.
anjanb 5y ago
Is there a good text book/resource to (re) learn 'discrete math combinatorics' ?

hackcasual 5y ago

I learned so much math when I looked into RLWE based lattice crypto. Some times it just takes a distinct use case to have something click

k__ 5y ago

Somehow discrete math was the only math I understood in CS. Calculus, on the other hand, completely eluded me.

copperx 5y ago
How did you graduate with a CS degree?
- eru 5y ago
  Depends on which country you are in. Not sure eg in Germany you have to do that much calculus for a CS degree. (Though, what do you mean by calculus? I assume you mean integration and differentiation and real numbers and stuff? Or something else?)
- kccqzy 5y ago
  In my school, to get the CS degree you only need as much calculus as needed to get to the second Physics course, which covers electromagnetism. You don't need a deep understanding of calculus. A lot of applications of calculus in the course can be handled by rote memorization. I took extra calculus classes from the math department. Those are way harder than what you need for introductory physics.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  My college just removed Calculus as a requirement...Although that could be partially because they have such a crazy high dropout rate for the compsci program. Graduation rate at the school as a whole is < 50%. I think they average like 10-30 comp sci majors a semester with an average student population of 4,000. Most students get scared off by the psychotic "teach as though this is an ivy league school" new teachers who get fired in two to four semesters because not a single student gives them a positive review.
- k__ 5y ago
  Persistence.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  Not op but for fwiw, in my university you only needed about as much calculus for ComSci as you would learn in IB/AP High school courses with a good prof anyway. Maybe a bit more but it was mostly a repeat. (I recall one day in 3rd year calculus course realizing "wait a second... I don't need to be here!". I just kept signing up for calculus every year since 11th grade and suddenly realized I don't need, don't want, and don't like the class nor the prof I was in, and that was one pain less I could instill upon myself :)
- smaudet 5y ago
  As others have mentioned 'calculus' can mean one of five or six classes (I, II, III, advanced, diffyQ, probably more), basic differentiation is not hard, most of calc is some tricks a computer can learn or do better. At least to my knowledge there is no 'theory of calculus' which allows one to solve generic integrals or differentials, calc is as much an unrelated art to comp sci as learning to play chess will help with accounting.
__MatrixMan__ 5y ago
If the whole of math were represented by the surface of the planet, "discrete math" would be more than half of it. Calculus (i.e. differentiation/integration on the reals) on the other hand, would be a city. Perhaps a very populated city, but just one. It's a shame that match curriculum for non-math-majors is an all-roads-lead-to-calculus affair. I think we scare a lot of potentially talented people away from math with that approach.
- cperciva 5y ago
  "Calculus" is just the most accessible corner of the broader field of Analysis. And a lot of "discrete" mathematics ends up drawing upon analysis (especially complex analysis) as you delve deeper.
- garmaine 5y ago
  I'm not sure why you think that? Basically all of physics, chemistry, and other physical sciences is calculus. Calculus is the mathematics of rates of change, and basically all physical science is the study of change. Discrete math is very important to computer science. But in the rest of the world, calculus (and differential equations) dominate.
  - 123pie123 5y ago
    Double integration - brings not very nice memories back of my hand aching from writing upto 5 pages of workings out
    - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
      It was especially bad in quantum mechanics where they made us do it the hard way (using calculus) before showing us the easy way (using noncommutative algebra).
  - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
    Maybe we're having a definition difference. My understanding of the term "discrete math" is that it refers to any math whose characters aren't part of a continuum. Anything to do with numbers besides the reals. Anything to to with finite sets. Anything to do with groups, rings, polynomials, trees, graphs, ordinals, lattices, compass-straightedge-constructions, polygons, knots, categories, sheaves, topological spaces, vector spaces, and anything to do with oddities like map coloring or plane tiling, and a lot else too. It's a course in "everything else" for students that are being pigeonholed into a mathematical specialization by the fact that it's been fashionable to use real numbers to describe the world since Newton.
christophilus 5y ago
For what it’s worth, I had the damndest time with Calculus until I got a good professor. When he explained it, everything clicked. A good teacher makes a massive difference. It might be worth giving it another go.
nabeelms 5y ago
My book recommendation for learning calculus would be Calculus Basic Concepts For High School by Tarasov.

anjanb 5y ago

Is there a good text book/resource to (re) learn 'discrete math combinatorics' ?