3 ms·

Mitigation as in hitting a wall at 180 mph instead of 200? Or hitting the wall in 32 years instead of 30? Everything helps, but in the end the solution to the

Mitigation as in hitting a wall at 180 mph instead of 200? Or hitting the wall in 32 years instead of 30? Everything helps, but in the end the solution to the problem is elsewhere. Not tackling the problem and only going to partial mitigations is almost as bad as doing nothing, because it is just a delay to avoid solving the problem until is too late or doesn't matter anymore for you in particular.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
This is the logic that led to people recommending against masks: wearing masks would give people a false sense of security, and they'd start touching each others' eyeballs. Turns out, that's not how human psychology works. If people are doing something, then other people feel like they can, too; if everybody's waiting for the big solution that will actually be worth doing (but won't ever happen, for political reasons)?
- playpause 5y ago
  “Turns out, that's not how human psychology works.” - source?
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    Source: the great experiment that we all did. People who wore masks over the past couple of years were generally more cautious if anything, not less.
    - playpause 5y ago
      What makes you think the causation is that way round?
      - krageon 5y ago
        What makes you think that it is not?
        playpause 5y ago
        My guess would be that cautious people are more likely to wear masks in the first place, and this would explain the correlation you've noticed between mask-wearing and being cautious. But I don't know for sure. Perhaps mask-wearing also makes uncautious people become more cautious, but I haven't seen anything to support that.
lovemenot 5y ago
If you have some suggestions, feel free. Meanwhile, please don't decry partial solutions for being partial. It's a very difficult problem and there will not be a silver bullet. Many partials might provide some respite. There's no guarantee, but something is better than nothing. I think the thing you miss is the shifting Overton Window. The more people get used to current partial solutions, the more they can accept the next more painful necessary changes. It's as if the effectiveness of braking is inversely proportional to speed. Those 20mph of deceleration are better than you imagine.
- gmuslera 5y ago
  I'm not saying that the mitigation shouldn't be done. What I am against is doing the side mitigation instead of going for the core problem solutions, or delaying them because your budget is focused by now on them, or first this, then that. If you have an bad infection on one leg, taking an aspirin to lower your fever is a mitigation, but if you don't address the infection, you will lose your leg or your life. And taking an aspirin is fast, simple and painless, if it were complicated, and expensive and time consuming you should probably address the infection first, unless the fever was already life threatening.
HPsquared 5y ago
Where's this solid "wall" you speak of? It's more like falling into Jupiter, getting immersed in a thicker and thicker soup...

wizzwizz4 5y ago

This is the logic that led to people recommending against masks: wearing masks would give people a false sense of security, and they'd start touching each others' eyeballs. Turns out, that's not how human psychology works. If people are doing something, then other people feel like they can, too; if everybody's waiting for the big solution that will actually be worth doing (but won't ever happen, for political reasons)?

playpause 5y ago
“Turns out, that's not how human psychology works.” - source?
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  Source: the great experiment that we all did. People who wore masks over the past couple of years were generally more cautious if anything, not less.
  - playpause 5y ago
    What makes you think the causation is that way round?
    - krageon 5y ago
      What makes you think that it is not?
      - playpause 5y ago
        My guess would be that cautious people are more likely to wear masks in the first place, and this would explain the correlation you've noticed between mask-wearing and being cautious. But I don't know for sure. Perhaps mask-wearing also makes uncautious people become more cautious, but I haven't seen anything to support that.

lovemenot 5y ago

If you have some suggestions, feel free. Meanwhile, please don't decry partial solutions for being partial. It's a very difficult problem and there will not be a silver bullet. Many partials might provide some respite. There's no guarantee, but something is better than nothing. I think the thing you miss is the shifting Overton Window. The more people get used to current partial solutions, the more they can accept the next more painful necessary changes. It's as if the effectiveness of braking is inversely proportional to speed. Those 20mph of deceleration are better than you imagine.

gmuslera 5y ago
I'm not saying that the mitigation shouldn't be done. What I am against is doing the side mitigation instead of going for the core problem solutions, or delaying them because your budget is focused by now on them, or first this, then that. If you have an bad infection on one leg, taking an aspirin to lower your fever is a mitigation, but if you don't address the infection, you will lose your leg or your life. And taking an aspirin is fast, simple and painless, if it were complicated, and expensive and time consuming you should probably address the infection first, unless the fever was already life threatening.

HPsquared 5y ago

Where's this solid "wall" you speak of? It's more like falling into Jupiter, getting immersed in a thicker and thicker soup...