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> were it not for the antivax population There's always someone to scapegoat. Instead of blaming politicians for being wrong, you're blaming the skeptics who k

> were it not for the antivax population There's always someone to scapegoat. Instead of blaming politicians for being wrong, you're blaming the skeptics who knew that vaccines aren't going to change anything.

Filligree 5y ago
They've reduced my chance of dying from COVID (when I'm infected, not if; it's happened at least twice so far) by around 95%. That's more than nothing.
tejohnso 5y ago
Also, "antivax" is unnecessarily pejorative. There are plenty of people who are hesitant toward covid vaccines exactly for the reasons you mention, while they're not at all against vaccines in general. The communication habits of all major governments haven't really encouraged trust. Fauci is on record as having lied to the public deliberately.
nawgz 5y ago
Sorry, but you are making politically charged arguments. I am stating facts. COVID is defeated by Pfizer/Moderna when it comes to an increased background death rate, i.e. if 100% of the population had Pfizer & Moderna there would be approximately no excess deaths in the population vs pre-COVID times. The remaining issue with the disease isn't so much the people dying from it as it is the fact the unvaccinated population gets very sick and overwhelms healthcare systems, resulting in triage situations that were easily avoidable. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination#united-states https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination#unite...
- vibrato2 5y ago
  Yet as vaccinations increase, the excess death rate increases
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  This data is interpreted wrongly. You need to separate mortality rate by age groups, need to check when cases were recorded, etc. pp. These graphs are more or less useless to draw conclusions from.
  - nawgz 5y ago
    Strongly disagree. I see no bias in vaccine uptake with respect to health outcomes. If anything I would expect the more at-risk to be more likely to be vaccinated, which would skew results towards showing an anti-vaccination result, yet... Measuring COVID cases and outcomes in two unbiased population samples gives a statistically significant result. Please show me why this is false, I would love to know, but I don't see how what you list would introduce bias that would make that graph "more or less useless"
drumhead 5y ago
> skeptics who knew that vaccines aren't going to change anything But they have, they've cut the death rate from Covid enourmously. Unless you have alternative figures that you can point me towards?

Filligree 5y ago

They've reduced my chance of dying from COVID (when I'm infected, not if; it's happened at least twice so far) by around 95%. That's more than nothing.

tejohnso 5y ago

Also, "antivax" is unnecessarily pejorative. There are plenty of people who are hesitant toward covid vaccines exactly for the reasons you mention, while they're not at all against vaccines in general. The communication habits of all major governments haven't really encouraged trust. Fauci is on record as having lied to the public deliberately.

nawgz 5y ago

Sorry, but you are making politically charged arguments. I am stating facts. COVID is defeated by Pfizer/Moderna when it comes to an increased background death rate, i.e. if 100% of the population had Pfizer & Moderna there would be approximately no excess deaths in the population vs pre-COVID times. The remaining issue with the disease isn't so much the people dying from it as it is the fact the unvaccinated population gets very sick and overwhelms healthcare systems, resulting in triage situations that were easily avoidable. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination#united-states https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination#unite...

vibrato2 5y ago
Yet as vaccinations increase, the excess death rate increases
raxxorrax 5y ago
This data is interpreted wrongly. You need to separate mortality rate by age groups, need to check when cases were recorded, etc. pp. These graphs are more or less useless to draw conclusions from.
- nawgz 5y ago
  Strongly disagree. I see no bias in vaccine uptake with respect to health outcomes. If anything I would expect the more at-risk to be more likely to be vaccinated, which would skew results towards showing an anti-vaccination result, yet... Measuring COVID cases and outcomes in two unbiased population samples gives a statistically significant result. Please show me why this is false, I would love to know, but I don't see how what you list would introduce bias that would make that graph "more or less useless"

drumhead 5y ago

> skeptics who knew that vaccines aren't going to change anything But they have, they've cut the death rate from Covid enourmously. Unless you have alternative figures that you can point me towards?