7 ms·

I like how this reached the top page soon after "Go does not need a Java-style GC" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29319160 https://news.ycombinator.com/i

by vletal 5y ago

I like how this reached the top page soon after "Go does not need a Java-style GC" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29319160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29319160). Moreover, are the significantly lower GC pause times help improve snappiness of GUI apps, such as IntelliJ IDEA?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fnord123 5y ago
Current IntelliJ uses Java11 and has gotten slower over the past few years (anecdata from my own use) - so probably not.
- thies 5y ago
  Since 2020.x it's definitely slower. The addition of jetbrains space doesn't seem to help either and removing the plugin itself makes the whole ide unstable
  - vips7L 5y ago
    I wish they would just release a light version, without all the database, spring integration, and other crap. I just want a light language server.
    - absove 5y ago
      wouldn't community edition fit the bill? Those things you mention are the main difference with ultimate.
      - vips7L 5y ago
        Not sure. I moved to VS Code + Eclipse LS and it's such a more pleasurable experience. However, it doesn't support SBT which is the build tool my company uses.
        hocuspocus 5y ago
        The community edition is definitely enough for sbt projects. Any reason you're using sbt for Java projects? That's an odd combination. Anyway, I believe Metals is getting close to supporting this particular use case if you want to keep using VS Code.
        vips7L 5y ago
        For some odd reason my company chose the play framework + Java. It's one of the most baffling choices I've ever seen. I've actually managed to get the Java plugins to work with sbt, but it doesn't understand when a Scala object is imported.
    - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
      Try power saving mode (look in ctrl+shift+a).
    - matsemann 5y ago
      Just deactivate the plugins?
- hiram112 5y ago
  This is what I've noticed too. Intellij has never exactly been speedy, but it had so many great features that it was worth it compared to other slow IDEs like Eclipse. And using a basic text editor like VIM or even VS Code with a big Java project isn't really feasible like it might be in other languages like Python or Node. However, now it is really bogging down. I'm sure it doesn't help that I've got several IDEs open along with some monstrosity of a "microservice" framework running half a dozen docker services and DBs on an older Macbook Pro, but it's true that app and OS devs tend to use all increases in CPU and ram, and so absolute performance and battery life never seems to get better over the years, regardless of how much the underlying hardware itself has improved.
  - vips7L 5y ago
    VS Code is fine with with big projects, I've been using it for 2 years. The language server is Eclipse after all.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Red-Hat is behind most of the Java plugins, so their quality is quite good, there is only the pain to live with Electron.
- aenis 5y ago
  Not just slower, also energy hugry. My m1 max running pycharm loses about 10pct of charge an hour on their crappy bundled jvm, and around 4% on the latest java17-based ones, but does act weird at times when using them. Its probably down to metal vs opengl. Disappointing.
pjmlp 5y ago
The GC might help, but it doesn't do magic when threads aren't used the correct way, too much stuff lands on the UI thread or synchronous IO is used all over the place.
Erlangen 5y ago
Intellij uses UseConcMarkSweepGC gc, which has been deprecated since Java 9. Jetbrains is still investigating the use of ZGC. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-247824 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-247824
- darksaints 5y ago
  Honestly this is the most frustrating thing about Jetbrains. Stop investigating shit and just use the new JVMs already. There is no excuse for using deprecated JVMs.
  - melony 5y ago
    I don’t understand why they are not shipping their own bespoke GC to go with Intellij, Jetbrains is already building their own JVMs.
  - astange 5y ago
    Edit the idea64.vmoptions config file and use the GC of your choice. I've been running with ShenandoahGC for quite some time now and it's been working great. Also, see https://github.com/JetBrains/JetBrainsRuntime/releases/tag/jbr17_0_1b164.8 https://github.com/JetBrains/JetBrainsRuntime/releases/tag/j... for a JDK17 runtime for Intellij products. I've been running this too and it works great (but does require some tweaks to the vmoptions file).
    - vips7L 5y ago
      I tried this last year but the version they shipped with IDEA didn't have ZGC and using an external JVM caused some weirdness in the GUI for me.
    - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
      Text can look pretty bad if you're using other JVMs without their patches.
      - 5y ago
Sankozi 5y ago
Snappiness problems are often due to lazy loading Java classes. For example first time loading project settings takes 1+ seconds while next less than 0.5. This value might get lower later if JVM decides to optimize more some parts of UI application.
- fnord123 5y ago
  I don't think that's where the issues are. IntelliJ freezes when reindexing a project when you change branches from the command line.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
edgyquant 5y ago
That’s the magic of HN (or maybe it’s a form of the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon.) When one topic reaches the front page it seems like a couple more based around it hit the front page the same or next day, which allows us to expand on what we’ve learned.
msie 5y ago
I’ve given up on IntelliJ and java-based UI’s long ago. So disappointing.
- coliveira 5y ago
  That's the right way to go. Like IntelliJ or not, Java is a legacy technology. I wouldn't want to depend on that.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    Lol, you are laughably bad to think that java is legacy. The JVM is improving with never before seen speed, has state of the art GCs, a very good JIT compiler, upcoming green threads that will make blocking code automagically unblocking and once Valhalla hits with value types, there really will be very few areas where java would not be applicable. And on top of that, there is also Graal, which is a novel way to run and optimize mixed-language code bases.
    - justbaker 5y ago
      >Lol, you are laughably bad to think that java is legacy. Seriously. It might not be one of the hip new languages with unique features but it’s a very mature language that is well battle tested, has plenty of libraries available, and the talent pool is very deep for Java hires. It’s also something that stands the test of time —- write code in 1999 on an old Java version it will still likely run on that version today.

by vletal 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

fnord123 5y ago

Current IntelliJ uses Java11 and has gotten slower over the past few years (anecdata from my own use) - so probably not.

thies 5y ago
Since 2020.x it's definitely slower. The addition of jetbrains space doesn't seem to help either and removing the plugin itself makes the whole ide unstable
- vips7L 5y ago
  I wish they would just release a light version, without all the database, spring integration, and other crap. I just want a light language server.
  - absove 5y ago
    wouldn't community edition fit the bill? Those things you mention are the main difference with ultimate.
    - vips7L 5y ago
      Not sure. I moved to VS Code + Eclipse LS and it's such a more pleasurable experience. However, it doesn't support SBT which is the build tool my company uses.
      - hocuspocus 5y ago
        The community edition is definitely enough for sbt projects. Any reason you're using sbt for Java projects? That's an odd combination. Anyway, I believe Metals is getting close to supporting this particular use case if you want to keep using VS Code.
        vips7L 5y ago
        For some odd reason my company chose the play framework + Java. It's one of the most baffling choices I've ever seen. I've actually managed to get the Java plugins to work with sbt, but it doesn't understand when a Scala object is imported.
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    Try power saving mode (look in ctrl+shift+a).
  - matsemann 5y ago
    Just deactivate the plugins?
hiram112 5y ago
This is what I've noticed too. Intellij has never exactly been speedy, but it had so many great features that it was worth it compared to other slow IDEs like Eclipse. And using a basic text editor like VIM or even VS Code with a big Java project isn't really feasible like it might be in other languages like Python or Node. However, now it is really bogging down. I'm sure it doesn't help that I've got several IDEs open along with some monstrosity of a "microservice" framework running half a dozen docker services and DBs on an older Macbook Pro, but it's true that app and OS devs tend to use all increases in CPU and ram, and so absolute performance and battery life never seems to get better over the years, regardless of how much the underlying hardware itself has improved.
- vips7L 5y ago
  VS Code is fine with with big projects, I've been using it for 2 years. The language server is Eclipse after all.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Red-Hat is behind most of the Java plugins, so their quality is quite good, there is only the pain to live with Electron.
aenis 5y ago
Not just slower, also energy hugry. My m1 max running pycharm loses about 10pct of charge an hour on their crappy bundled jvm, and around 4% on the latest java17-based ones, but does act weird at times when using them. Its probably down to metal vs opengl. Disappointing.

pjmlp 5y ago

The GC might help, but it doesn't do magic when threads aren't used the correct way, too much stuff lands on the UI thread or synchronous IO is used all over the place.

Erlangen 5y ago

Intellij uses UseConcMarkSweepGC gc, which has been deprecated since Java 9. Jetbrains is still investigating the use of ZGC. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-247824 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-247824

darksaints 5y ago
Honestly this is the most frustrating thing about Jetbrains. Stop investigating shit and just use the new JVMs already. There is no excuse for using deprecated JVMs.
- melony 5y ago
  I don’t understand why they are not shipping their own bespoke GC to go with Intellij, Jetbrains is already building their own JVMs.
- astange 5y ago
  Edit the idea64.vmoptions config file and use the GC of your choice. I've been running with ShenandoahGC for quite some time now and it's been working great. Also, see https://github.com/JetBrains/JetBrainsRuntime/releases/tag/jbr17_0_1b164.8 https://github.com/JetBrains/JetBrainsRuntime/releases/tag/j... for a JDK17 runtime for Intellij products. I've been running this too and it works great (but does require some tweaks to the vmoptions file).
  - vips7L 5y ago
    I tried this last year but the version they shipped with IDEA didn't have ZGC and using an external JVM caused some weirdness in the GUI for me.
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    Text can look pretty bad if you're using other JVMs without their patches.
    - 5y ago

Sankozi 5y ago

Snappiness problems are often due to lazy loading Java classes. For example first time loading project settings takes 1+ seconds while next less than 0.5. This value might get lower later if JVM decides to optimize more some parts of UI application.

fnord123 5y ago
I don't think that's where the issues are. IntelliJ freezes when reindexing a project when you change branches from the command line.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

edgyquant 5y ago

That’s the magic of HN (or maybe it’s a form of the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon.) When one topic reaches the front page it seems like a couple more based around it hit the front page the same or next day, which allows us to expand on what we’ve learned.

msie 5y ago

I’ve given up on IntelliJ and java-based UI’s long ago. So disappointing.

coliveira 5y ago
That's the right way to go. Like IntelliJ or not, Java is a legacy technology. I wouldn't want to depend on that.
- kaba0 5y ago
  Lol, you are laughably bad to think that java is legacy. The JVM is improving with never before seen speed, has state of the art GCs, a very good JIT compiler, upcoming green threads that will make blocking code automagically unblocking and once Valhalla hits with value types, there really will be very few areas where java would not be applicable. And on top of that, there is also Graal, which is a novel way to run and optimize mixed-language code bases.
  - justbaker 5y ago
    >Lol, you are laughably bad to think that java is legacy. Seriously. It might not be one of the hip new languages with unique features but it’s a very mature language that is well battle tested, has plenty of libraries available, and the talent pool is very deep for Java hires. It’s also something that stands the test of time —- write code in 1999 on an old Java version it will still likely run on that version today.