6 ms·

> Like a bible study, but without the bible. Yeah, exactly. Or hackerspaces. Or OSS. Or presenting at DEFCON. (And, yes, these folks will include this project

> Like a bible study, but without the bible. Yeah, exactly. Or hackerspaces. Or OSS. Or presenting at DEFCON. (And, yes, these folks will include this project in their tenure/promotion cases and therefore indirectly benefit professionally even if they don't charge just like in the cases above.) My only real "criticism" of this model is that the people doing this work shouldn't shy away from asking for "tithes"... humanities professors are criminally under-paid and plenty of folks would pay to attend these sorts of seminars (in the same way that most people tithe at church).

throwaway894345 5y ago
Do most people tithe at church?
- dbt00 5y ago
  Even in churches without official tithes, there's a collection plate passed. Operations must be funded, employees need to be fed, housed, clothed.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    I guess growing up people would toss a few bucks in the collection plate. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned that my Dad would write a significant check to the church every month in addition to the few dollars we passed in the plate (we were a blue collar family, but my parents prioritized tithing, which helped to subsidize the school that was affiliated with the church). My understanding is that the plate is not a significant portion of the church’s revenue, but maybe other churches put larger checks into the collection plate.
    - throwaway984393 5y ago
      Our family put the checks in the collection plate. They certainly do get donations from other places, and of course they don't pay taxes.
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      > Dad would write a significant check to the church every month That's also tithing (and is completely normal for regular church goers... bible says 10% to the church and a lot of folks follow that prescription)
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        Yes, of course. But I'd be surprised if the majority of churchgoers tithe 10%. My guess is that there's some Pareto principle wherein 20% of the congregation ("members" in some churches) seriously tithe and the other 80% might toss a little into the collection plate but aren't giving anywhere near 10%. Of course, I expect this varies tremendously from church to church and even from denomination to denomination.
        tomByrer 5y ago
        Average is 3-5% last I heard. https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/statistics/who-gives https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/statistics/wh... Reality is, most non-profits' (church & non-church like NPR) budgets are funded by a small handful of very wealthy/generous donors. Not even 80%/20% rule, more like 80% of donations/sponsorships are from ~5% of the people giving money, the other 95% people giving's total is a small % of budget. That's why in all non-profits, the leadership has to 'report' to a small number or rich donors. Piss off a couple of the rich, your non-profit will fold.
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  In the United States, most churches are open to anyone who wants to come in, but often being a "member" of the church requires providing some form of formal support, such as tithing (members typically have at least some say in church policy, while random congregants do not). Congregants (who may not be official members) also generally add something to the collection plate when it comes around. Some countries still have "established" churches, which historically received direct government support from tax money (this is not always the case today... while the Church of England is still the "established" church in England, it no longer receives direct taxpayer support). Others may have a group of recognized churches that can receive taxpayer support (Germany is that way, I believe... you declare your religious affiliation, and if it is on the government-approved list, the government tax authorities will collect the tax and remit it to the church).
  - wfhpw 5y ago
    10% of income is the standard
    - justahuman74 5y ago
      That's just enormous, seems like a strong disincentive to join
      - gjvnq 5y ago
        Depends on how it is calculated, if it is after tax that isn't so much. Also, people who are supporting church will often use a lot of their services so it's not like giving money to a charity you will never directly see their work (like environmental groups). Finally, the 10% rule comes from times where the state had a much lesser role in fighting poverty.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
        Exactly. At most churches, tithes mostly pay for the physical plant and the full-time staff (who provide services in the form of weekly lectures, counseling, misc. community organizing, and sometimes directly contribute to physical plant upkeep as well). Tithing is more like a PBS membership or seomthing.
titanomachy 5y ago
I agree students should be encouraged to donate if they are able. However, charging something close to "market rate" for this kind of thing would definitely affect who ends up attending.

throwaway894345 5y ago

Do most people tithe at church?

dbt00 5y ago
Even in churches without official tithes, there's a collection plate passed. Operations must be funded, employees need to be fed, housed, clothed.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  I guess growing up people would toss a few bucks in the collection plate. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned that my Dad would write a significant check to the church every month in addition to the few dollars we passed in the plate (we were a blue collar family, but my parents prioritized tithing, which helped to subsidize the school that was affiliated with the church). My understanding is that the plate is not a significant portion of the church’s revenue, but maybe other churches put larger checks into the collection plate.
  - throwaway984393 5y ago
    Our family put the checks in the collection plate. They certainly do get donations from other places, and of course they don't pay taxes.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > Dad would write a significant check to the church every month That's also tithing (and is completely normal for regular church goers... bible says 10% to the church and a lot of folks follow that prescription)
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      Yes, of course. But I'd be surprised if the majority of churchgoers tithe 10%. My guess is that there's some Pareto principle wherein 20% of the congregation ("members" in some churches) seriously tithe and the other 80% might toss a little into the collection plate but aren't giving anywhere near 10%. Of course, I expect this varies tremendously from church to church and even from denomination to denomination.
      - tomByrer 5y ago
        Average is 3-5% last I heard. https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/statistics/who-gives https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/statistics/wh... Reality is, most non-profits' (church & non-church like NPR) budgets are funded by a small handful of very wealthy/generous donors. Not even 80%/20% rule, more like 80% of donations/sponsorships are from ~5% of the people giving money, the other 95% people giving's total is a small % of budget. That's why in all non-profits, the leadership has to 'report' to a small number or rich donors. Piss off a couple of the rich, your non-profit will fold.
Turing_Machine 5y ago
In the United States, most churches are open to anyone who wants to come in, but often being a "member" of the church requires providing some form of formal support, such as tithing (members typically have at least some say in church policy, while random congregants do not). Congregants (who may not be official members) also generally add something to the collection plate when it comes around. Some countries still have "established" churches, which historically received direct government support from tax money (this is not always the case today... while the Church of England is still the "established" church in England, it no longer receives direct taxpayer support). Others may have a group of recognized churches that can receive taxpayer support (Germany is that way, I believe... you declare your religious affiliation, and if it is on the government-approved list, the government tax authorities will collect the tax and remit it to the church).
- wfhpw 5y ago
  10% of income is the standard
  - justahuman74 5y ago
    That's just enormous, seems like a strong disincentive to join
    - gjvnq 5y ago
      Depends on how it is calculated, if it is after tax that isn't so much. Also, people who are supporting church will often use a lot of their services so it's not like giving money to a charity you will never directly see their work (like environmental groups). Finally, the 10% rule comes from times where the state had a much lesser role in fighting poverty.
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        Exactly. At most churches, tithes mostly pay for the physical plant and the full-time staff (who provide services in the form of weekly lectures, counseling, misc. community organizing, and sometimes directly contribute to physical plant upkeep as well). Tithing is more like a PBS membership or seomthing.

titanomachy 5y ago

I agree students should be encouraged to donate if they are able. However, charging something close to "market rate" for this kind of thing would definitely affect who ends up attending.