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Well, they can try, but even with centralized exchanges, a VPN will do. And then there are decentralized protocols. Once you have some of your money in crypto

Well, they can try, but even with centralized exchanges, a VPN will do. And then there are decentralized protocols. Once you have some of your money in cryptocurrency there's no real way for anyone to stop you from moving your money around however you like. The only points that can be controlled are interfaces with banks.

ProfessorLayton 5y ago
>The only points that can be controlled are interfaces with banks. That's... A big deal?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lottin 5y ago
  Yeah, well, basically they stop you from cashing out, which means your crypto-holdings are worth zero to you, whatever their market value.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  It is a big deal if you're only speculating and need to cash out. But if you can buy goods and services informally in these currencies, or use tools like stablecoins to speculate on network, it's really nothing to worry about.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
instagraham 5y ago
The interfaces have almost been reduced to a couple of options: A single mobile wallet, or P2P. A ban would force the wallet's company to stop allowing its use on crypto exchanges.
mathnmusic 5y ago
Banks can block accounts of centralized exchanges (and have done so in the past when govt asked them to). And once conversion from and to fiat money is disabled, there's very little value left in cryptocurrency.
- petilon 5y ago
  Unless you want to spend the money abroad.
joe_the_user 5y ago
If it's illegal to exchange goods or official currency for cryptocurrency in the nation you are in, the usefulness of cryptocurrency is going to be considerably constrained. This depends on how thorough or draconian the state is but a lot of people just shy away from illegal activity without enforcement being that strong. After all, if buy a tangible good, I want legal title to it and having engaged in an illegal transaction to get the stuff makes that less certain.
- santiagobasulto 5y ago
  That is why drugs and other illegal things are so cheap, right?
  - joshgrib 5y ago
    I think they're expensive exactly for that reason - people have to factor in the risk that someone would be totally legally justified to come and take all their stuff tomorrow. Those are also actual products with a true value to people - not a currency
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    I’m not sure what your point is? You’re kind of proving them right. I guess you’re trying to equate drugs with crypto, saying if it was criminalized it would spike in price, but that’s a false equivalency. Drugs provide a utility all on their own they depend on users speculating about them just to have value. If anything the inverse applies here, but for the same reason, a currency that the government doesn’t want you to use will have less value because you’ll only be able to exchange it with nefarious organizations who can pick and choose the price. Drugs are expensive because the risk of them being illegal is factored in and the suppliers can demand whatever they want.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    Drugs are actually very expensive relative to production costs because of the added risks. Marijuana, for example, is a very easy crop to grow. There isn't any reason it should cost more than any given spice per gram. However, since it was illegal, street vendors could charge significant markup because 'shoe-leather' cost is very high. Now that it's becoming legal, the gov is extracting the difference as taxes, keeping prices high for revenue.
ngokevin 5y ago
How are you supposed to turn the coins into FIAT where it's actually usable? At that point, you cannot move your money around however you like, you can only move the tokens around on the blockchain.
- tiborsaas 5y ago
  Worst case is to buy some physical goods and sell it. A bit cumbersome, but not impossible.
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    In this case, no legitimate seller would be allowed to sell you physical goods for cryptocurrencies - you'd have to buy some physical goods abroad and then import them or the money (India does not have free movement of capital across the border).
    - rodolphoarruda 5y ago
      Just checking possibilities here. Let's say you want to buy my house and I want to sell it to you. We are in India. You transfer crypto to my wallet then I, in return, donate my house to you. Would this donation work on the legal papers today? I suspect that in Brazil, where I live today, it would.
      - lottin 5y ago
        > You transfer crypto to my wallet then I, in return, donate my house to you. How would that work? Can't you just not donate the house, after they have given you their crypto?
        betwixthewires 5y ago
        Well obviously there's going to be a level of trust seeing as recourse is narrower, just like any black market transaction. Maybe even some possibility of extralegal recourse. But people can and therefore will do it.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
not just banks, but everywhere you can spend it in country. fine you can move money between virtual accounts and buy NFTs all day, but government can control whether local business are allowed to accept your crypto as payment, so you’ll need to liquidate crypto into local currency - which kind of sucks to do if the banks aren’t there to help.
- xtracto 5y ago
  This hasnt been a problem forvseveral years. There are different options: - buy international prepaid cards for legal dervices (bitrefill) - use p2p local crypto exchanges: localcrypto, localmonero (in some countries this can be 100% anonymous by using the "withdraw from atm with 1 time code" bank services) - Exchange to alternate "tokens" that are legal (anyone remembers Linden dollars to BTC market around 2010?) - Exchange locally via sneakernet.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    >buy international prepaid cards for legal dervices (bitrefill) within the country, you'd be committing a crime acquiring stuff using crypto. The cards are international but you're committing the act locally. >use p2p local crypto exchanges: localcrypto, localmonero (in some countries this can be 100% anonymous by using the "withdraw from atm with 1 time code" bank services) Will all be banned and illegal services. If it touches a bank you'll likely get extra charges on top for money laundering or similar. >Exchange to alternate "tokens" that are legal That will be tracked by the government if legal, or illegal if not tracked. >Exchange locally via sneakernet "exchange on black market" None of these things are solutions.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      Your point boils down to "but it will be illegal." The point you're responding to that you missed was "it doesn't matter if it is illegal, people will do it." All of those are just examples of ways to avoid getting caught. They're not solutions to it being illegal, they're solutions to getting caught.
YetAnotherNick 5y ago
> Once you have some of your money in cryptocurrency That is a pretty big condition. Most of the people who buy crypto wants to buy from some trustworthy site, and if that is stopped there will be effectively zero new crypto being brought inside the country. Also no one knows how much hassle will it be to convert it into money in bank, this is likely to stop almost all trades.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bob331 5y ago
Grow up. Just ban all financial companies from dealing with crypto crap. As soon as it can’t be exchanged for real currencies it will be worthless
brighton36 5y ago
They'll successfully cut the liquidity. People aren't going to be able to ach/swift any substantial amount, and Irl exchanges will be dangerous and subject to theft. The government can't cut it out in full, but, it can reduce the value enough to make Pokemon cards a more valuable alternative
idiotsecant 5y ago
If they make owning crypto a crime it becomes just a matter of showing that you used it then they put you in a concrete box for a while.
Hooray_Darakian 5y ago
Enforcement doesn't have to be perfect to curtail major usage.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
If you are willing to break the law and risk being caught, sure, there is no way to actually stop from transacting using decentralized protocols. But there are plenty of other ways for the government to find out whether or not you are using crypto. Your bank will definitely keep tabs on your fiat transactions and continue to report KYC/AML information. Current KYC/AML is actually pretty good at detecting anomalies in cashflow and spending. Sure, you can lie about all this stuff but you might just be digging yourself into a hole.

ProfessorLayton 5y ago

>The only points that can be controlled are interfaces with banks. That's... A big deal?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lottin 5y ago
Yeah, well, basically they stop you from cashing out, which means your crypto-holdings are worth zero to you, whatever their market value.
betwixthewires 5y ago
It is a big deal if you're only speculating and need to cash out. But if you can buy goods and services informally in these currencies, or use tools like stablecoins to speculate on network, it's really nothing to worry about.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

instagraham 5y ago

The interfaces have almost been reduced to a couple of options: A single mobile wallet, or P2P. A ban would force the wallet's company to stop allowing its use on crypto exchanges.

mathnmusic 5y ago

Banks can block accounts of centralized exchanges (and have done so in the past when govt asked them to). And once conversion from and to fiat money is disabled, there's very little value left in cryptocurrency.

petilon 5y ago
Unless you want to spend the money abroad.

joe_the_user 5y ago

If it's illegal to exchange goods or official currency for cryptocurrency in the nation you are in, the usefulness of cryptocurrency is going to be considerably constrained. This depends on how thorough or draconian the state is but a lot of people just shy away from illegal activity without enforcement being that strong. After all, if buy a tangible good, I want legal title to it and having engaged in an illegal transaction to get the stuff makes that less certain.

santiagobasulto 5y ago
That is why drugs and other illegal things are so cheap, right?
- joshgrib 5y ago
  I think they're expensive exactly for that reason - people have to factor in the risk that someone would be totally legally justified to come and take all their stuff tomorrow. Those are also actual products with a true value to people - not a currency
- edgyquant 5y ago
  I’m not sure what your point is? You’re kind of proving them right. I guess you’re trying to equate drugs with crypto, saying if it was criminalized it would spike in price, but that’s a false equivalency. Drugs provide a utility all on their own they depend on users speculating about them just to have value. If anything the inverse applies here, but for the same reason, a currency that the government doesn’t want you to use will have less value because you’ll only be able to exchange it with nefarious organizations who can pick and choose the price. Drugs are expensive because the risk of them being illegal is factored in and the suppliers can demand whatever they want.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  Drugs are actually very expensive relative to production costs because of the added risks. Marijuana, for example, is a very easy crop to grow. There isn't any reason it should cost more than any given spice per gram. However, since it was illegal, street vendors could charge significant markup because 'shoe-leather' cost is very high. Now that it's becoming legal, the gov is extracting the difference as taxes, keeping prices high for revenue.

ngokevin 5y ago

How are you supposed to turn the coins into FIAT where it's actually usable? At that point, you cannot move your money around however you like, you can only move the tokens around on the blockchain.

tiborsaas 5y ago
Worst case is to buy some physical goods and sell it. A bit cumbersome, but not impossible.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  In this case, no legitimate seller would be allowed to sell you physical goods for cryptocurrencies - you'd have to buy some physical goods abroad and then import them or the money (India does not have free movement of capital across the border).
  - rodolphoarruda 5y ago
    Just checking possibilities here. Let's say you want to buy my house and I want to sell it to you. We are in India. You transfer crypto to my wallet then I, in return, donate my house to you. Would this donation work on the legal papers today? I suspect that in Brazil, where I live today, it would.
    - lottin 5y ago
      > You transfer crypto to my wallet then I, in return, donate my house to you. How would that work? Can't you just not donate the house, after they have given you their crypto?
      - betwixthewires 5y ago
        Well obviously there's going to be a level of trust seeing as recourse is narrower, just like any black market transaction. Maybe even some possibility of extralegal recourse. But people can and therefore will do it.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

not just banks, but everywhere you can spend it in country. fine you can move money between virtual accounts and buy NFTs all day, but government can control whether local business are allowed to accept your crypto as payment, so you’ll need to liquidate crypto into local currency - which kind of sucks to do if the banks aren’t there to help.

xtracto 5y ago
This hasnt been a problem forvseveral years. There are different options: - buy international prepaid cards for legal dervices (bitrefill) - use p2p local crypto exchanges: localcrypto, localmonero (in some countries this can be 100% anonymous by using the "withdraw from atm with 1 time code" bank services) - Exchange to alternate "tokens" that are legal (anyone remembers Linden dollars to BTC market around 2010?) - Exchange locally via sneakernet.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  >buy international prepaid cards for legal dervices (bitrefill) within the country, you'd be committing a crime acquiring stuff using crypto. The cards are international but you're committing the act locally. >use p2p local crypto exchanges: localcrypto, localmonero (in some countries this can be 100% anonymous by using the "withdraw from atm with 1 time code" bank services) Will all be banned and illegal services. If it touches a bank you'll likely get extra charges on top for money laundering or similar. >Exchange to alternate "tokens" that are legal That will be tracked by the government if legal, or illegal if not tracked. >Exchange locally via sneakernet "exchange on black market" None of these things are solutions.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Your point boils down to "but it will be illegal." The point you're responding to that you missed was "it doesn't matter if it is illegal, people will do it." All of those are just examples of ways to avoid getting caught. They're not solutions to it being illegal, they're solutions to getting caught.

YetAnotherNick 5y ago

> Once you have some of your money in cryptocurrency That is a pretty big condition. Most of the people who buy crypto wants to buy from some trustworthy site, and if that is stopped there will be effectively zero new crypto being brought inside the country. Also no one knows how much hassle will it be to convert it into money in bank, this is likely to stop almost all trades.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bob331 5y ago

Grow up. Just ban all financial companies from dealing with crypto crap. As soon as it can’t be exchanged for real currencies it will be worthless

brighton36 5y ago

They'll successfully cut the liquidity. People aren't going to be able to ach/swift any substantial amount, and Irl exchanges will be dangerous and subject to theft. The government can't cut it out in full, but, it can reduce the value enough to make Pokemon cards a more valuable alternative

idiotsecant 5y ago

If they make owning crypto a crime it becomes just a matter of showing that you used it then they put you in a concrete box for a while.

Hooray_Darakian 5y ago

Enforcement doesn't have to be perfect to curtail major usage.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

If you are willing to break the law and risk being caught, sure, there is no way to actually stop from transacting using decentralized protocols. But there are plenty of other ways for the government to find out whether or not you are using crypto. Your bank will definitely keep tabs on your fiat transactions and continue to report KYC/AML information. Current KYC/AML is actually pretty good at detecting anomalies in cashflow and spending. Sure, you can lie about all this stuff but you might just be digging yourself into a hole.