5 ms·

Because they spread to the rest of the population. I don’t understand how, two years into the pandemic people are still evaluating whether we should vaccinate p

by deanc 5y ago

Because they spread to the rest of the population. I don’t understand how, two years into the pandemic people are still evaluating whether we should vaccinate people based only off the risk to themselves.

encryptluks2 5y ago
Vaccinated people spread to the rest of the population as well. Don't know why you think vaccination prevents people from spreading COVID-19.
- listless 5y ago
  Exactly this. I am double vaxxed Moderna and got it. I was bad sick, but not as bad as my unvaxxed friends who got it. But I’m sure I spread that sucker all over the place. And by the way, the mask made no difference In my case. I’m convinced it’s a fresh N95 everyday or you’re wasting your time.
  - roywiggins 5y ago
    The vaccine is still good at preventing you from catching it at all. If you don't catch it you don't spread it. It's more like 50% effective than 99%, but it's still going to reduce the chance you give it to anyone substantially.
    - verdverm 5y ago
      Vaccinated, asymptomatic can still spread the disease, though at reduced rates.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > the mask made no difference In my case How can you possibly know such a thing? The mask is more about reducing your spread to others, do you have reliable data on how many people you would have infected in lieu of masking? No, you don't.
    - listless 5y ago
      All I know is I wore one and so did all my friends and it cut through all of us like a knife through butter. Nobody was spared. People think masks are going to save them. In my experience, they prevented nothing of consequence to me or the people I interact with.
      - pengaru 5y ago
        Most of what it does is affect the probability of your spreading it to others, and it doesn't reduce that down to zero. So it's unrealistic to expect masking to prevent your spreading it to close friends/family whom you're in frequent contact with. But it lowers how much you're emitting past the mask while standing in line at the grocery store. Your take on this seems incredibly self-centered.
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        Careful there... people are going to start calling you an antivax Nazi Trump supporter for your own personal experience.
    - chrismcb 5y ago
      Because a lot of the studies back that comment up.
- poxrud 5y ago
  Vaccination greatly reduces the rate of spread compared to the unvaccinated. [0] [0]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...
  - vimy 5y ago
    I’m not convinced it matters that much. Regions with high vaccination rates are having corona spikes right now. In my country 92 % of adults are vaccinated and we have the highest number of cases since 2020. Gibraltar with 100 %, Ireland with 95 %, there are more countries/regions…, all having a big rise in cases and are going back into lockdown. So it doesn’t seem like the lower viral load is making much of a difference.
    - ben7799 5y ago
      Do those #s include children? The numbers here are very high (in one of the most vaccinated US states) but only if you look at the 18+ number or something similar. We still have plenty of unvaccinated kids spreading it around and they end up spreading it to some vaccinated people.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      > Ireland with 95 % In Ireland we have, today, rates substantially lower than the peak in January. The variant prevalent in January was far less infectious, and most stuff was closed in January (there was a sort of timid partial reopening of some pubs and restaurants the previous November, which was reversed at the end of December, no events with over 50 people were allowed, everyone was still told to work from home where possible, etc). Now we have a much more infectious variant, almost everything is open (though people were advised to work from home where possible last week), and the rate is still lower. That actually looks like reasonable evidence that the vaccine _is_ somewhat effective at lowering the R number, to me. At any rate, something is clearly reducing infection; despite a much more infectious variant, and far, far more social mixing, the R number is lower than it was in January.
- matwood 5y ago
  If someone doesn't catch it to start, they can't spread it.
verdverm 5y ago
I don't know the answer to this, but how does the total viral shed of a unvaccinated child compare to a vaccinated 60+? Also the viral shed of children compared by vaccine status. If it turns out the answer is lower and similar respectively, then it would seem vaccination of children makes little difference in the grand scheme. Two years in and we still make policy with many unknowns. Why don't we have a better understanding of the effects of policies over the last two years? I suspect (hope) we will have a 9/11 style commission in the US to study covid and policy for many years
- roywiggins 5y ago
  The youngest kids are actually more likely to pass it on to their families, because they can't isolate.
  - verdverm 5y ago
    Any references to share? That logic would seem to apply to all groups who cohabitate and is orthogonal to my query.
    - roywiggins 5y ago
      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2783022?guestAccessKey=52a9e0cf-bc64-4ec0-a945-49fd1373950f https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...
      - verdverm 5y ago
        Ok,so kids which are more likely to be picked up and held transmit slightly more than other kids. This sheds no light on my original query which seeks to compare viral loads and transmission rates between unvaccinated kids and vaccinated adults. First, vaccines were not available during the study. Second, it only considered one direction, kids to adults. One would need to do a multi way with more age groups. We know the disease is skewed w.r.t. age.
blindmute 5y ago
I don't care about the rest of the population; I care about the health of my children. So yes, I am going to evaluate vaccinating a young child based on the risk to them. The child death rate graph is just noise; you can't tell any difference between vaccinated and not. The side effect rate from vaccines graph is, obviously, 0% in the latter group.

by deanc 5y ago

encryptluks2 5y ago

Vaccinated people spread to the rest of the population as well. Don't know why you think vaccination prevents people from spreading COVID-19.

listless 5y ago
Exactly this. I am double vaxxed Moderna and got it. I was bad sick, but not as bad as my unvaxxed friends who got it. But I’m sure I spread that sucker all over the place. And by the way, the mask made no difference In my case. I’m convinced it’s a fresh N95 everyday or you’re wasting your time.
- roywiggins 5y ago
  The vaccine is still good at preventing you from catching it at all. If you don't catch it you don't spread it. It's more like 50% effective than 99%, but it's still going to reduce the chance you give it to anyone substantially.
  - verdverm 5y ago
    Vaccinated, asymptomatic can still spread the disease, though at reduced rates.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > the mask made no difference In my case How can you possibly know such a thing? The mask is more about reducing your spread to others, do you have reliable data on how many people you would have infected in lieu of masking? No, you don't.
  - listless 5y ago
    All I know is I wore one and so did all my friends and it cut through all of us like a knife through butter. Nobody was spared. People think masks are going to save them. In my experience, they prevented nothing of consequence to me or the people I interact with.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Most of what it does is affect the probability of your spreading it to others, and it doesn't reduce that down to zero. So it's unrealistic to expect masking to prevent your spreading it to close friends/family whom you're in frequent contact with. But it lowers how much you're emitting past the mask while standing in line at the grocery store. Your take on this seems incredibly self-centered.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      Careful there... people are going to start calling you an antivax Nazi Trump supporter for your own personal experience.
  - chrismcb 5y ago
    Because a lot of the studies back that comment up.
poxrud 5y ago
Vaccination greatly reduces the rate of spread compared to the unvaccinated. [0] [0]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...
- vimy 5y ago
  I’m not convinced it matters that much. Regions with high vaccination rates are having corona spikes right now. In my country 92 % of adults are vaccinated and we have the highest number of cases since 2020. Gibraltar with 100 %, Ireland with 95 %, there are more countries/regions…, all having a big rise in cases and are going back into lockdown. So it doesn’t seem like the lower viral load is making much of a difference.
  - ben7799 5y ago
    Do those #s include children? The numbers here are very high (in one of the most vaccinated US states) but only if you look at the 18+ number or something similar. We still have plenty of unvaccinated kids spreading it around and they end up spreading it to some vaccinated people.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    > Ireland with 95 % In Ireland we have, today, rates substantially lower than the peak in January. The variant prevalent in January was far less infectious, and most stuff was closed in January (there was a sort of timid partial reopening of some pubs and restaurants the previous November, which was reversed at the end of December, no events with over 50 people were allowed, everyone was still told to work from home where possible, etc). Now we have a much more infectious variant, almost everything is open (though people were advised to work from home where possible last week), and the rate is still lower. That actually looks like reasonable evidence that the vaccine _is_ somewhat effective at lowering the R number, to me. At any rate, something is clearly reducing infection; despite a much more infectious variant, and far, far more social mixing, the R number is lower than it was in January.
matwood 5y ago
If someone doesn't catch it to start, they can't spread it.

verdverm 5y ago

I don't know the answer to this, but how does the total viral shed of a unvaccinated child compare to a vaccinated 60+? Also the viral shed of children compared by vaccine status. If it turns out the answer is lower and similar respectively, then it would seem vaccination of children makes little difference in the grand scheme. Two years in and we still make policy with many unknowns. Why don't we have a better understanding of the effects of policies over the last two years? I suspect (hope) we will have a 9/11 style commission in the US to study covid and policy for many years

roywiggins 5y ago
The youngest kids are actually more likely to pass it on to their families, because they can't isolate.
- verdverm 5y ago
  Any references to share? That logic would seem to apply to all groups who cohabitate and is orthogonal to my query.
  - roywiggins 5y ago
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2783022?guestAccessKey=52a9e0cf-bc64-4ec0-a945-49fd1373950f https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...
    - verdverm 5y ago
      Ok,so kids which are more likely to be picked up and held transmit slightly more than other kids. This sheds no light on my original query which seeks to compare viral loads and transmission rates between unvaccinated kids and vaccinated adults. First, vaccines were not available during the study. Second, it only considered one direction, kids to adults. One would need to do a multi way with more age groups. We know the disease is skewed w.r.t. age.

blindmute 5y ago

I don't care about the rest of the population; I care about the health of my children. So yes, I am going to evaluate vaccinating a young child based on the risk to them. The child death rate graph is just noise; you can't tell any difference between vaccinated and not. The side effect rate from vaccines graph is, obviously, 0% in the latter group.