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> The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient. Sure, however the F-150 wa

> The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient. Sure, however the F-150 was by far the biggest selling vehicle at least up until 2019. Over 3 times as many sold as the second most popular vehicle.

SkyPuncher 5y ago
My father's F-150 is _more_ fuel efficient than my 4-cylinder crossover - both in the mid-20's for mpg. In order to get a meaningful reduction in consumption, you need to be driving a sedan or coupe. ---- Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board.
- mint2 5y ago
  A Forster or outback is not a coupe or sedan and the forester mpg is 33 highway.
- xattt 5y ago
  Best of both worlds of capacity and fuel economy is a station wagon. With the Golf Sportwagen (EU name Golf Variant) off the market in North America now, it leaves Volvos and Subarus as the only option. I predict that in the next decade, station wagons will get rediscovered as manufacturers try to maximize range and reduce battery volume as electrification marches on. Edit: forgot about Subarus
  - tssva 5y ago
    Isn't the Subaru Outback still a station wagon even if they try to disguise it with crossover inspired body panels.
    - raydev 5y ago
      It has quite a bit of ground clearance despite it's low profile. It's higher off the ground than more popular models like the CR-V, RAV4, Highlander, etc.
  - biztos 5y ago
    I just checked and it seems the Subaru Outback is bigger than the Golf Variant and has otherwise similar stats. Are they not the same class of car?
    - raydev 5y ago
      Different size class. The Outback is a lifted large sedan with an extended trunk, there aren't any vehicles on the market that compare to it except perhaps the Toyota Venza. Outback "competes" with the crossovers which are usually shorter in length and have taller interior space.
      - pintxo 5y ago
        Don't they sell the Mercedes E-Class T Model in the US?
        raydev 5y ago
        Perhaps, Mercedes is luxury though. People are more likely to purchase something that provides better value/size/gas mileage that costs 40% less.
        xattt 5y ago
        Volvo wagons start at about $51k CAD, MB C-Class starts at $57k CAD and an E-Class starts at $81k CAD. This is out of reach of Jonny Everyman (including me). I purchased a base Golf Sportwagen with 4Motion back in 2017 for around $29k which was surprisingly nicely equipped (DSG, tunable engine, decent soundsystem). A similarly equipped Suburu would have been mid-to-high $30s. If I had freedom to "flex", I would have gone for the Volvo because of the safety street cred.
    - xattt 5y ago
      My mistake. I did forget about this one!
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    The very hard edge on the tail of a wagon makes it a terribly great at producing turbolence which is bad for fuel efficiency. I think shooting break or sort of stretched-out hatchbacks will be where it's at.
  - anemoiac 5y ago
    I hope you’re right. I’ve been driving wagons for years, but the US market for them has been shrinking consistently since crossovers became a thing. Europeans seemingly have oodles of options, but God forbid automakers allow Americans a sporty AWD wagon with a manual transmission…
- _huayra_ 5y ago
  What 4-cylinder crossover is getting mid-20s (at least hwy mpg)? Certainly a lot of these lil crossovers with natural-aspirated 4-cylinder engines can really strain to heft a bigger vehicle up from a stop (I'm looking at you, Subaru!), but once one is driving hwy speeds they are really quite fuel-sipping.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    My 2009 Honda Element gets 22-24mpg. A friend had a Nissan Murano that got similar.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    The examples listed are Honda Element and Nissan Murrano, which are decidedly not small, fuel efficient vehicles but instead blown-up heavier counterparts built on a shared platform with a 4 cylinder engine. These cars are often less practical than their smaller, more fuel-efficient counterparts. So these are not exactly arguments against buying smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient cars. One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability. This allows bigger, less efficient cars compete with the more efficient ones because the sale price ends up being close enough to the more efficient counterparts for this to not matter.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      > One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability This was true like in the 1990s. It hasn't been true in a very long time (almost 20 years now). The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold.
      - rascul 5y ago
        > The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold. Edmunds has the 2004 H1 at 7,608 lbs. [0] and the 2009 H2 at 6,614 lbs. [1] 2004 and 2009 are the newest Edmunds has for those models. Looks like the new GMC Hummer EV is going to be over 9,000 lbs. [2] The lightest 2022 Chevrolet Tahoe that I could find on Edmunds was 5,473 lbs. [3] [0] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ [1] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ [2] https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-edition-1-weight-official/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-ed... [3] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/
- nradov 5y ago
  I've owned sedans and coupes before. Never again. Lifting heavy objects out of a trunk is just too hard on my back.
- derefr 5y ago
  > Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board. "Unnecessarily large engine" sure sounds like something that would have negative consequences, but Cylinder Deactivation (CDA) is a thing. Just like your CPU, your engine doesn't need to spin up every "core" if it's not loaded to 100%. And fewer concurrent explosions per second, means less gas needed to drive all those explosions. A V8 that's only driving 4 of its 8 cylinders in most situations, is likely going to be even less gas-guzzling than a V6 that always has to drive all 6 cylinders. (Well, other than the fact that the V8 has to work slightly harder to move a car that's heavier from the additional engine weight.) Of course, not all vehicles have CDA. But more and more do. And, relevant to the discussion — as of the 2021 model, the F-150 has CDA. (https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2020/10/2021-ford-f150-5-0l-v8-engine/ https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2020/10/2021-ford-f150-5-0l-v8-e...)
newbamboo 5y ago
Mostly fleet purchases or commercial vehicles which contradicts the parents point about individual purchasing decisions. I know a lot of people who drive trucks as their primary vehicle, none of them drive f150’s. It’s absurd.

SkyPuncher 5y ago

My father's F-150 is _more_ fuel efficient than my 4-cylinder crossover - both in the mid-20's for mpg. In order to get a meaningful reduction in consumption, you need to be driving a sedan or coupe. ---- Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board.

mint2 5y ago
A Forster or outback is not a coupe or sedan and the forester mpg is 33 highway.
xattt 5y ago
Best of both worlds of capacity and fuel economy is a station wagon. With the Golf Sportwagen (EU name Golf Variant) off the market in North America now, it leaves Volvos and Subarus as the only option. I predict that in the next decade, station wagons will get rediscovered as manufacturers try to maximize range and reduce battery volume as electrification marches on. Edit: forgot about Subarus
- tssva 5y ago
  Isn't the Subaru Outback still a station wagon even if they try to disguise it with crossover inspired body panels.
  - raydev 5y ago
    It has quite a bit of ground clearance despite it's low profile. It's higher off the ground than more popular models like the CR-V, RAV4, Highlander, etc.
- biztos 5y ago
  I just checked and it seems the Subaru Outback is bigger than the Golf Variant and has otherwise similar stats. Are they not the same class of car?
  - raydev 5y ago
    Different size class. The Outback is a lifted large sedan with an extended trunk, there aren't any vehicles on the market that compare to it except perhaps the Toyota Venza. Outback "competes" with the crossovers which are usually shorter in length and have taller interior space.
    - pintxo 5y ago
      Don't they sell the Mercedes E-Class T Model in the US?
      - raydev 5y ago
        Perhaps, Mercedes is luxury though. People are more likely to purchase something that provides better value/size/gas mileage that costs 40% less.
      - xattt 5y ago
        Volvo wagons start at about $51k CAD, MB C-Class starts at $57k CAD and an E-Class starts at $81k CAD. This is out of reach of Jonny Everyman (including me). I purchased a base Golf Sportwagen with 4Motion back in 2017 for around $29k which was surprisingly nicely equipped (DSG, tunable engine, decent soundsystem). A similarly equipped Suburu would have been mid-to-high $30s. If I had freedom to "flex", I would have gone for the Volvo because of the safety street cred.
  - xattt 5y ago
    My mistake. I did forget about this one!
- eptcyka 5y ago
  The very hard edge on the tail of a wagon makes it a terribly great at producing turbolence which is bad for fuel efficiency. I think shooting break or sort of stretched-out hatchbacks will be where it's at.
- anemoiac 5y ago
  I hope you’re right. I’ve been driving wagons for years, but the US market for them has been shrinking consistently since crossovers became a thing. Europeans seemingly have oodles of options, but God forbid automakers allow Americans a sporty AWD wagon with a manual transmission…
_huayra_ 5y ago
What 4-cylinder crossover is getting mid-20s (at least hwy mpg)? Certainly a lot of these lil crossovers with natural-aspirated 4-cylinder engines can really strain to heft a bigger vehicle up from a stop (I'm looking at you, Subaru!), but once one is driving hwy speeds they are really quite fuel-sipping.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  My 2009 Honda Element gets 22-24mpg. A friend had a Nissan Murano that got similar.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  The examples listed are Honda Element and Nissan Murrano, which are decidedly not small, fuel efficient vehicles but instead blown-up heavier counterparts built on a shared platform with a 4 cylinder engine. These cars are often less practical than their smaller, more fuel-efficient counterparts. So these are not exactly arguments against buying smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient cars. One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability. This allows bigger, less efficient cars compete with the more efficient ones because the sale price ends up being close enough to the more efficient counterparts for this to not matter.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    > One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability This was true like in the 1990s. It hasn't been true in a very long time (almost 20 years now). The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold.
    - rascul 5y ago
      > The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold. Edmunds has the 2004 H1 at 7,608 lbs. [0] and the 2009 H2 at 6,614 lbs. [1] 2004 and 2009 are the newest Edmunds has for those models. Looks like the new GMC Hummer EV is going to be over 9,000 lbs. [2] The lightest 2022 Chevrolet Tahoe that I could find on Edmunds was 5,473 lbs. [3] [0] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ [1] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ [2] https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-edition-1-weight-official/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-ed... [3] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/
nradov 5y ago
I've owned sedans and coupes before. Never again. Lifting heavy objects out of a trunk is just too hard on my back.
derefr 5y ago
> Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board. "Unnecessarily large engine" sure sounds like something that would have negative consequences, but Cylinder Deactivation (CDA) is a thing. Just like your CPU, your engine doesn't need to spin up every "core" if it's not loaded to 100%. And fewer concurrent explosions per second, means less gas needed to drive all those explosions. A V8 that's only driving 4 of its 8 cylinders in most situations, is likely going to be even less gas-guzzling than a V6 that always has to drive all 6 cylinders. (Well, other than the fact that the V8 has to work slightly harder to move a car that's heavier from the additional engine weight.) Of course, not all vehicles have CDA. But more and more do. And, relevant to the discussion — as of the 2021 model, the F-150 has CDA. (https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2020/10/2021-ford-f150-5-0l-v8-engine/ https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2020/10/2021-ford-f150-5-0l-v8-e...)

newbamboo 5y ago

Mostly fleet purchases or commercial vehicles which contradicts the parents point about individual purchasing decisions. I know a lot of people who drive trucks as their primary vehicle, none of them drive f150’s. It’s absurd.