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The EU's overbearing character has been visible for a long while. It is the primary reason I supported brexit. It is working towards turning the union into a

The EU's overbearing character has been visible for a long while. It is the primary reason I supported brexit. It is working towards turning the union into a single country, has bitten off more than it can chew, and is looking increasingly despotic and dystopian.

telmo 5y ago
I am a continental European and I have lived in the UK for some time. I always lived under the impression that the goal of the EU was to increase integration. I think the majority of continental Europeans feel the same and support this idea to some degree. I always felt that this was only news to the British. I also support brexit. I would prefer for the UK to be in the EU because it would make all of us stronger and closer, as I think we should be, but I have to accept that current UK culture is just not compatible with the European project. Good luck to my British friends, who I know see me as "foreigner". I don't see you as foreigner.
- biztos 5y ago
  > I think the majority of continental Europeans feel the same and support this idea to some degree. I guess that must be true of the political elite in the major (remaining) EU countries, or it wouldn't be the policy, right? But for, say, Hungary, where I have a lot of experience, I'm pretty sure basically nobody thinks "increasing integration" should be the goal. Well maybe some tiny minority who happen to work for the EU itself. The integration everyone cared about already happened, except for the currency integration which will never happen. (IMO good that it won't.) Now you have one side that would like to use the EU as a cudgel for rule-of-law questions but only without interrupting the flow of money; and another, more powerful side that uses the EU as a dog-whistle for nationalists as long as it doesn't interrupt the flow of money. I can't speak for "Europe" (neither can Brussels) but I know a lot of people in Germany who also think there has been quite enough integration already, thank you. Try ordering an espresso in Berlin without speaking English. (I neither supported nor opposed Brexit as I'm just a dirty foreigner in the EU either way, but I have sympathy for those who did so on principle.)
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    Why do you think we should not cooperate more towards the common goals of humanity?
    - jaywalk 5y ago
      We don't need any more banners on every website, thanks.
      - GreenWatermelon 5y ago
        Bad websites using dark patterns to circumvent laws aren't a good criticism of law. I'm so surprised that here in HN, I keep seeing comments complaining about "banners" disclosing the fact that every interaction with the website is monitored by probably every mega corp out there. If you don't like the banners, tell the websites not to collect your data for profit, rather than complain about knowing that they do.
  - telmo 5y ago
    > the political elite I'm not sure what this means. > in the major (remaining) EU countries, or it wouldn't be the policy, right? It is not some policy, it is an international treaty signed by every current in the EU. This would be like saying that NATO is "a policy". By the way, the remaining countries are 27. 13 of those joined since the year 2000 and one left. > except for the currency integration which will never happen Yes it did. What a bizarre statement. > Try ordering an espresso in Berlin without speaking English. I live in Berlin. You can order anything in German anywhere. This is at best a gross exaggeration, at worse an outright lie. It was exactly this type of "fact" that was used to convince a lot of British people to commit brexit.
throwawayffffas 5y ago
This isn't an EU thing, UK and Australia are already down this road. This is really security services not knowing what they are really asking from the legislators and legislators being too clueless as to what they are about to do would actually result in.
na85 5y ago
> It is the primary reason I supported brexit. That's an interesting take because I've always thought, as an outsider, that the British population seems strangely accepting of authoritarian governments.
concinds 5y ago
Nassim Taleb has argued the same. Smaller organizations are more resilient and stronger, and bigger ones are more fragile. The idea of continental integration is a very dangerous one. One day, when we have a one world government, where will refugees flee to? Mars? The EU's democratic deficit, and the fact that these regulations can be rolled out to most of the world's major economies without any proper debate or (likely) checks and balances, proves the dangers of political organizations that are bigger than "human sized". How do you even protest this? Any country is forced to listen to mass protests, but there's no such thing for the EU.
- Hakashiro 5y ago
  Yeah? Then why won't Boris Johnson allow the Scottish to vote for independence? Surely, taking your argument as truth, Scotland is smaller than the UK and therefore stronger than the UK?
  - concinds 5y ago
    Because he would go down in the polls if he did that. That doesn't mean it's the "wrong thing to do". And yes, Scotland will exist for longer than the UK will, in all likelihood. They are "more durable" as I said. Them leaving would lead the UK to cease to exist in its current form.
- GreenWatermelon 5y ago
  Flee from what? a war with aliens? Natural catastrophies? Localized conflicts? Or are you talking about political refugees? A world is essentially impossible to achieve anyway, because super powers don't want anyone to dictate rules. The EU is not a mini-world government. it's an attempt at unifying many small nations to achieve peace and World power status. on their own, European countries are at the mercy if the US and China.
DaedPsyker 5y ago
GCHQ has effectively no legal limit, UK may 'technically' be under ECHR rules but they don't have means of verifying that they actually comply.
nirv 5y ago
Nice gaslighting, mate. Coming from the #3 among the world's worst surveillance CCTV dystopias[1]. Let alone the exact same persistive narrative regarding encryption[2][3][4][5]. [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/19256/the-most-surveilled-cities-in-the-world/ https://www.statista.com/chart/19256/the-most-surveilled-cit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption_ban_proposal_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption_ban_proposal_in_the... [3] https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-encryption-facebook-home-office-nspcc https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-encryption-facebook-home-... [4] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-statement-end-to-end-encryption-and-public-safety https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-sta... [5] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/30/uk-tells-messaging-apps-not-to-use-e2e-encryption-for-kids-accounts/?guccounter=1 https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/30/uk-tells-messaging-apps-no...
dm319 5y ago
We have Amber Rudd - brexit won't change that I'm afraid.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
So, runaway rather than staying and using your absolute veto to prevent federalisation, thus abandoning Churchill's vision of the EC project being the way to keep peace in Europe? Brexit for you is the nationwide version of De Pfeffle Johnson hiding in a fridge?? Now the UK gets to be twice as despotic and dystopian to show achieve what??? Doesn't make much sense. The threat of federalisation being imposed on the UK was just another lie. That aside, if UK voted to support federalisation, what would be your principal fear? The Tories seem mostly to have gone about increasing wealth disparity (dodgy contacts, corruption in parliament, tax breaks for the rich, pay freezes [ie real terms pay cuts] for the poor). What's their next move?

telmo 5y ago

I am a continental European and I have lived in the UK for some time. I always lived under the impression that the goal of the EU was to increase integration. I think the majority of continental Europeans feel the same and support this idea to some degree. I always felt that this was only news to the British. I also support brexit. I would prefer for the UK to be in the EU because it would make all of us stronger and closer, as I think we should be, but I have to accept that current UK culture is just not compatible with the European project. Good luck to my British friends, who I know see me as "foreigner". I don't see you as foreigner.

biztos 5y ago
> I think the majority of continental Europeans feel the same and support this idea to some degree. I guess that must be true of the political elite in the major (remaining) EU countries, or it wouldn't be the policy, right? But for, say, Hungary, where I have a lot of experience, I'm pretty sure basically nobody thinks "increasing integration" should be the goal. Well maybe some tiny minority who happen to work for the EU itself. The integration everyone cared about already happened, except for the currency integration which will never happen. (IMO good that it won't.) Now you have one side that would like to use the EU as a cudgel for rule-of-law questions but only without interrupting the flow of money; and another, more powerful side that uses the EU as a dog-whistle for nationalists as long as it doesn't interrupt the flow of money. I can't speak for "Europe" (neither can Brussels) but I know a lot of people in Germany who also think there has been quite enough integration already, thank you. Try ordering an espresso in Berlin without speaking English. (I neither supported nor opposed Brexit as I'm just a dirty foreigner in the EU either way, but I have sympathy for those who did so on principle.)
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  Why do you think we should not cooperate more towards the common goals of humanity?
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    We don't need any more banners on every website, thanks.
    - GreenWatermelon 5y ago
      Bad websites using dark patterns to circumvent laws aren't a good criticism of law. I'm so surprised that here in HN, I keep seeing comments complaining about "banners" disclosing the fact that every interaction with the website is monitored by probably every mega corp out there. If you don't like the banners, tell the websites not to collect your data for profit, rather than complain about knowing that they do.
- telmo 5y ago
  > the political elite I'm not sure what this means. > in the major (remaining) EU countries, or it wouldn't be the policy, right? It is not some policy, it is an international treaty signed by every current in the EU. This would be like saying that NATO is "a policy". By the way, the remaining countries are 27. 13 of those joined since the year 2000 and one left. > except for the currency integration which will never happen Yes it did. What a bizarre statement. > Try ordering an espresso in Berlin without speaking English. I live in Berlin. You can order anything in German anywhere. This is at best a gross exaggeration, at worse an outright lie. It was exactly this type of "fact" that was used to convince a lot of British people to commit brexit.

throwawayffffas 5y ago

This isn't an EU thing, UK and Australia are already down this road. This is really security services not knowing what they are really asking from the legislators and legislators being too clueless as to what they are about to do would actually result in.

na85 5y ago

> It is the primary reason I supported brexit. That's an interesting take because I've always thought, as an outsider, that the British population seems strangely accepting of authoritarian governments.

concinds 5y ago

Nassim Taleb has argued the same. Smaller organizations are more resilient and stronger, and bigger ones are more fragile. The idea of continental integration is a very dangerous one. One day, when we have a one world government, where will refugees flee to? Mars? The EU's democratic deficit, and the fact that these regulations can be rolled out to most of the world's major economies without any proper debate or (likely) checks and balances, proves the dangers of political organizations that are bigger than "human sized". How do you even protest this? Any country is forced to listen to mass protests, but there's no such thing for the EU.

Hakashiro 5y ago
Yeah? Then why won't Boris Johnson allow the Scottish to vote for independence? Surely, taking your argument as truth, Scotland is smaller than the UK and therefore stronger than the UK?
- concinds 5y ago
  Because he would go down in the polls if he did that. That doesn't mean it's the "wrong thing to do". And yes, Scotland will exist for longer than the UK will, in all likelihood. They are "more durable" as I said. Them leaving would lead the UK to cease to exist in its current form.
GreenWatermelon 5y ago
Flee from what? a war with aliens? Natural catastrophies? Localized conflicts? Or are you talking about political refugees? A world is essentially impossible to achieve anyway, because super powers don't want anyone to dictate rules. The EU is not a mini-world government. it's an attempt at unifying many small nations to achieve peace and World power status. on their own, European countries are at the mercy if the US and China.

DaedPsyker 5y ago

GCHQ has effectively no legal limit, UK may 'technically' be under ECHR rules but they don't have means of verifying that they actually comply.

nirv 5y ago

Nice gaslighting, mate. Coming from the #3 among the world's worst surveillance CCTV dystopias[1]. Let alone the exact same persistive narrative regarding encryption[2][3][4][5]. [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/19256/the-most-surveilled-cities-in-the-world/ https://www.statista.com/chart/19256/the-most-surveilled-cit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption_ban_proposal_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption_ban_proposal_in_the... [3] https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-encryption-facebook-home-office-nspcc https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-encryption-facebook-home-... [4] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-statement-end-to-end-encryption-and-public-safety https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-sta... [5] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/30/uk-tells-messaging-apps-not-to-use-e2e-encryption-for-kids-accounts/?guccounter=1 https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/30/uk-tells-messaging-apps-no...

dm319 5y ago

We have Amber Rudd - brexit won't change that I'm afraid.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

So, runaway rather than staying and using your absolute veto to prevent federalisation, thus abandoning Churchill's vision of the EC project being the way to keep peace in Europe? Brexit for you is the nationwide version of De Pfeffle Johnson hiding in a fridge?? Now the UK gets to be twice as despotic and dystopian to show achieve what??? Doesn't make much sense. The threat of federalisation being imposed on the UK was just another lie. That aside, if UK voted to support federalisation, what would be your principal fear? The Tories seem mostly to have gone about increasing wealth disparity (dodgy contacts, corruption in parliament, tax breaks for the rich, pay freezes [ie real terms pay cuts] for the poor). What's their next move?