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> The Rust Moderation Team (Andre, Andrew and Matthieu) Is the Rust mod team really just 3 people? I'm really surprised to see this coming from Rust. I've vie

by dom96 5y ago

> The Rust Moderation Team (Andre, Andrew and Matthieu) Is the Rust mod team really just 3 people? I'm really surprised to see this coming from Rust. I've viewed Rust's governance as one of the best amongst open source projects. Coincidentally we have very recently put together a mod team in Nim[1] that is significantly larger than just 3, it would be really great to hear more details so we can learn from this. 1 - https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8629 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8629

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
couchand 5y ago
They do suggest that the next mod team spend more time recruiting...
burntsushi 5y ago
It was 4 people until very recently. But it was only 4 for a long time. It's inaugural size (of which I was a part) was bigger than that. People leave over time and it's hard to get new members. We acknowledged this in our statement. We suggested that the future mod team do a better job recruiting new members than we did.
- nabakin 5y ago
  Thanks for your contribution burntsushi. I'm sorry it has come to this.
  - teakettle42 5y ago
    Thanking the political commissars? I’m glad to see them resign, and I hope open source can ultimately route around the unearned power grab that the “CoC” movement represents.
    - danachow 5y ago
      Specifically, how do you feel someone like burntsushi represented an unearned power grab? Go on, I'm listening.
    - samcal 5y ago
      I actually disagree with 2 parts of your premise 1. I don't think we're actually talking about that much power, in most instances the issues amount to "not behaving professionally in an environment that wants to have a professional character" 2. What would it need to be for you to consider what power it gives as "earned"? I'm surprised since it seems that power being explicitly delegated by the project should be enough by any measure.
    - hoseja 5y ago
      Actually this time it's the opposite. The moderators' refusal to elaborate unfortunately lends itself to your position and it was my knee-jerk reaction too until I found out the conjunctured details.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I very much dislike COCs and overbearing moderation teams in open source communities. Good on you that you didn't publicize anything, that is probably the hardest for you than for anyone else. The Rust leadership doesn't make a good impression to be honest. I like the language itself but it isn't really an open source community I would want to engage in aside from the technical aspects (my involvement is limited in any communities because I mostly write commercial software, just dabble here and there, although I am clearly dependent on open source and try to point that out to those less positively inclined to the concept). What really interests me is why you believe such COCs are necessary. Do you believe they improve open source communities? It is a necessary evil if a certain popularity is reached? Is formalization an attempt at transparency? As I said I dislike COCs, but the Rust one has less than 300 words. Does this reach any target audiences? Is "professionalism" worth striving for? In my capacity as a developer I have professional exchange in a corporate setting. Sure that every corporation has their own behavior rules, but there is never a formal framework for such engagements that mostly involves people from different companies. Perhaps people behave better because otherwise their job is on the line, but why does it work here? And I believe for many working in such a setting a more "direct" method of mutual engagement seems kind of refreshing. Would be sad if open source tried to mimic the corporate work. There is no greener grass here.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    A code of conduct is there so that everyone knows what the rules are, and can refer to them when moderating (including self-moderating) interactions within the community. I'd consider it a big upgrade over when I was in charge of moderating an online community, and formal COCs weren't a common thing yet. The rules, such as they were, were largely informal and unwritten. In consequence, that mod team was very much a star chamber. It wasn't great. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Inter-corporate communication is not a good analogy here, because inter-corporate communication can't generally be modeled as a set of individuals freely associating with each other. Their status as representatives of their employers significantly changes the landscape. Companies are generally careful not to install people with less-than-stellar communication skills at their interfaces with other companies in the first place. I suppose the maxim to trot out here is, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

by dom96 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

couchand 5y ago

They do suggest that the next mod team spend more time recruiting...

burntsushi 5y ago

It was 4 people until very recently. But it was only 4 for a long time. It's inaugural size (of which I was a part) was bigger than that. People leave over time and it's hard to get new members. We acknowledged this in our statement. We suggested that the future mod team do a better job recruiting new members than we did.

nabakin 5y ago
Thanks for your contribution burntsushi. I'm sorry it has come to this.
- teakettle42 5y ago
  Thanking the political commissars? I’m glad to see them resign, and I hope open source can ultimately route around the unearned power grab that the “CoC” movement represents.
  - danachow 5y ago
    Specifically, how do you feel someone like burntsushi represented an unearned power grab? Go on, I'm listening.
  - samcal 5y ago
    I actually disagree with 2 parts of your premise 1. I don't think we're actually talking about that much power, in most instances the issues amount to "not behaving professionally in an environment that wants to have a professional character" 2. What would it need to be for you to consider what power it gives as "earned"? I'm surprised since it seems that power being explicitly delegated by the project should be enough by any measure.
  - hoseja 5y ago
    Actually this time it's the opposite. The moderators' refusal to elaborate unfortunately lends itself to your position and it was my knee-jerk reaction too until I found out the conjunctured details.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I very much dislike COCs and overbearing moderation teams in open source communities. Good on you that you didn't publicize anything, that is probably the hardest for you than for anyone else. The Rust leadership doesn't make a good impression to be honest. I like the language itself but it isn't really an open source community I would want to engage in aside from the technical aspects (my involvement is limited in any communities because I mostly write commercial software, just dabble here and there, although I am clearly dependent on open source and try to point that out to those less positively inclined to the concept). What really interests me is why you believe such COCs are necessary. Do you believe they improve open source communities? It is a necessary evil if a certain popularity is reached? Is formalization an attempt at transparency? As I said I dislike COCs, but the Rust one has less than 300 words. Does this reach any target audiences? Is "professionalism" worth striving for? In my capacity as a developer I have professional exchange in a corporate setting. Sure that every corporation has their own behavior rules, but there is never a formal framework for such engagements that mostly involves people from different companies. Perhaps people behave better because otherwise their job is on the line, but why does it work here? And I believe for many working in such a setting a more "direct" method of mutual engagement seems kind of refreshing. Would be sad if open source tried to mimic the corporate work. There is no greener grass here.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  A code of conduct is there so that everyone knows what the rules are, and can refer to them when moderating (including self-moderating) interactions within the community. I'd consider it a big upgrade over when I was in charge of moderating an online community, and formal COCs weren't a common thing yet. The rules, such as they were, were largely informal and unwritten. In consequence, that mod team was very much a star chamber. It wasn't great. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Inter-corporate communication is not a good analogy here, because inter-corporate communication can't generally be modeled as a set of individuals freely associating with each other. Their status as representatives of their employers significantly changes the landscape. Companies are generally careful not to install people with less-than-stellar communication skills at their interfaces with other companies in the first place. I suppose the maxim to trot out here is, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."