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Sometimes this complexity can lead to nice loopholes. Some time ago I wrote a comment [0] which explained how we once tricked ourselves into a 1,500 km, 7 day t

by lqet 5y ago

Sometimes this complexity can lead to nice loopholes. Some time ago I wrote a comment [0] which explained how we once tricked ourselves into a 1,500 km, 7 day train trip for 39 EUR: > Deutsche Bahn had (and still has I think) a "Europe Special" where you could buy a ticket from any town in Germany to any town in Europe for 39 EUR flat. Our idea was to travel through Croatia for a few weeks, starting from Zagreb. Sure enough, bahn.de (the journey planer of Deutsche Bahn) offered us a ticket for a train ride of around 16 hours from our home town to Zagreb, through Austria and Slovenia. We would have had to change trains 2 times. > Then things escalated. > We discovered that we could book the same trip, for the same price, but with a different route, making a 500 km detour inside Germany over my parent's town. Then we discovered that bahn.de allowed us to specify a minimum time to change trains. We set it to 24 hours at my parent's town, letting us stay at my parents for a night. Then we found out that we could set an additional via option in such a way that we had to change trains in Ljubljana. We set the minimum time to change trains there to 24 hours. Then we found out that the ticket price was the same if we travelled not only to Zagreb, but to Split (at the coast), which required a change of trains in Zagreb. But we wanted to stay a few days in Zagreb, and the maximum minimum time to change trains on bahn.de was 24 hours. But thenw e discovered that (at least 5 years ago) all foreign tickets were valid for 30 days in Croatia. Effectively, this meant that we could stay in Zagreb for 30 days, and our ticket to Split was still valid. > We got the ticket. After a week of visiting my parents (1 night stay), Ljubljana (1 night stay), and Zagreb (5 nights stay), we arrived in Split without problems. It was a 1,500 km, 7 day train trip for 39 EUR. > The only minor problem we had was the German conductor in the first train after we visited my parents. He just stared at the monstrous ticket in disbelief and had to finally conclude that it was valid. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26982370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26982370

Freak_NL 5y ago
As a train loving Dutchman the German bahn.de website is my go-to destination for any travelling from the Netherlands to Germany. It's just so much more convenient than the Dutch NS website. Fun loophole with those minimum transfer times, was it patched since? It's not something I would use; I don't mind paying a fair price for what is a form of transport much more sustainable than air travel, although I do like to figure out economically frugal routes. Having to have an argument with a conductor isn't my idea of leisurely travel either. I could manage in Germany, but I once had an Italian train conductor who didn't understand the (valid and very popular) Interrail tickets we had and just got annoyed. She gave up thankfully and move on in a huff.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  > loophole with those minimum transfer times I have to ask why it’s a loophole. OP consumed just as much train with long stops as someone that travelled directly. It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. I get it that suppliers like to charge more for more convenience but really, the cost of provision is the same (or less!).
  - bleuchase 5y ago
    > It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. What’s odd? Supply and demand. More people want direct flights so they cost more money.
    - someonewhocar3s 5y ago
      No, that's odd. Supply is not much restricted per route. There's simply a pricing model where a more convenient or luxurious travel intiniary is more expensive. Only temporary popularity shifts could do a supply/demand price run, otherwise larger airplanes generally lower costs per passenger, and running more flights on the same line is likely a reduced effort and risk than having more lines. Low-performance or high-variance lines could be higher priced due to having to pay for empty seats (on the same line of flights) but I believe this is not usual. The remaining passengers would be fewer. I should think air travel would greatly improve with better customer-risk-treatment (e.g. no security - more like busses) and a 'ticketing model' that's as complicated as buying train tickets. Perhaps then we will see some more imaginative forms of air travel.
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    Airlines actually make it kinda difficult to get longer layovers, and a lot of them have gotten rid of open jaw itineraries. I think the reason that some indirect flights are cheaper is that you're picking up excess capacity on underutilized flights (which, like you said, let's them charge a premium when direct flight seats are scarce)
vmception 5y ago
Hanging out in hostels is a good way to find these loopholes but I'm sure internet forums can help too

by lqet 5y ago

Freak_NL 5y ago

As a train loving Dutchman the German bahn.de website is my go-to destination for any travelling from the Netherlands to Germany. It's just so much more convenient than the Dutch NS website. Fun loophole with those minimum transfer times, was it patched since? It's not something I would use; I don't mind paying a fair price for what is a form of transport much more sustainable than air travel, although I do like to figure out economically frugal routes. Having to have an argument with a conductor isn't my idea of leisurely travel either. I could manage in Germany, but I once had an Italian train conductor who didn't understand the (valid and very popular) Interrail tickets we had and just got annoyed. She gave up thankfully and move on in a huff.

Scoundreller 5y ago
> loophole with those minimum transfer times I have to ask why it’s a loophole. OP consumed just as much train with long stops as someone that travelled directly. It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. I get it that suppliers like to charge more for more convenience but really, the cost of provision is the same (or less!).
- bleuchase 5y ago
  > It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. What’s odd? Supply and demand. More people want direct flights so they cost more money.
  - someonewhocar3s 5y ago
    No, that's odd. Supply is not much restricted per route. There's simply a pricing model where a more convenient or luxurious travel intiniary is more expensive. Only temporary popularity shifts could do a supply/demand price run, otherwise larger airplanes generally lower costs per passenger, and running more flights on the same line is likely a reduced effort and risk than having more lines. Low-performance or high-variance lines could be higher priced due to having to pay for empty seats (on the same line of flights) but I believe this is not usual. The remaining passengers would be fewer. I should think air travel would greatly improve with better customer-risk-treatment (e.g. no security - more like busses) and a 'ticketing model' that's as complicated as buying train tickets. Perhaps then we will see some more imaginative forms of air travel.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  Airlines actually make it kinda difficult to get longer layovers, and a lot of them have gotten rid of open jaw itineraries. I think the reason that some indirect flights are cheaper is that you're picking up excess capacity on underutilized flights (which, like you said, let's them charge a premium when direct flight seats are scarce)

vmception 5y ago

Hanging out in hostels is a good way to find these loopholes but I'm sure internet forums can help too