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I commented before, but that was before checking your profile, web site and social media. Now I guess, I have a more personal recommendation. Apparently, you'v

I commented before, but that was before checking your profile, web site and social media. Now I guess, I have a more personal recommendation. Apparently, you've worked for the same company for over a decade doing data entry, you just passed your Lean green belt and you like tech. It could be useful to look at business process automation, low code tools or robotic process automation. I've seen the combination of these things used for automating data entry processes in many industries, including yours. There are many low code and RPA tools available (Mendix, UIPath, etc, just Google it) that offer free online training and certifications. These certs are not extremely hard to get if you have some interest in tech. For many companies in this field, hiring someone experienced with data entry, that can also do automation of those tasks is like finding the holy grail. Especially when you also have a lean cert. It might be useful to look on Google for products like the one I mentioned and then look in your area for vacancies that require knowledge of them. Maybe there's an interesting opportunity in it for you!

shureluck 5y ago
+1. This is a very good and well-rounded response. I might add that for tech engineering of any type, getting a BS in Computer Science (from a reputable school) is insanely helpful in the long run if there is an interest in going further in your career and it does not lock a person into one particular track.
- oblio 5y ago
  Yeah, but getting that bachelor's at a good school is a full time job. I'm not sure he can afford 4 years away from work.
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    Community college. One can absolutely get a technical AS from a community college while working full time, it might not be a CS degree, but I bet it will fall under the "or similar" category for most purposes. A more "job focused" AS degree would probably help the OP get out of their current career rut quickly. Given the current job market, companies might be willing to take a chance on someone who successfully completed some technical classes at night already. In recent years, it has become much more common for community colleges to partner with a larger university to offer AS -> BS paths. The AS will serve as a good checkpoint too. Since, we know how life can be, especially in one's 30s-40s; our situations can change dramatically in the span of a few years.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Yeah, but the comment I was replying to said: > BS in Computer Science (from a reputable school)
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Honestly, a BS in anything is helpful. As a SWE at large the number of teammates I've had with CS degrees I can count on one hand, everyone else came from another walk of life
  - dymk 5y ago
    Personally, I’ve experienced the opposite. Almost all my coworkers have at least a BS in CS/CE/DS and only a couple have an alternative such as a bootcamp.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      Software is a diverse field! I've worked at pure software companies employing largely CS people; specialized technical software companies employing more mechanical/aerospace engineers; and in business-focused software companies employing people with non-traditional tech backgrounds.
    - tomc1985 5y ago
      My guess is this depends when you got into tech. I am a lifer and have been at it since high school; most of my peers got in through sheer passion, when it wasn't nearly as crowded
- avgDev 5y ago
  Honestly, any state school should do. I graduated with high honors from just an average state school and have no problems getting interview requests at fortune 500 companies and at amazon/fb. I do pass interviews also :).
- cortesoft 5y ago
  I have been in professional software development for 15 years, at both startups and a fortune 15. I have worked as both an individual contributor writing code, and am now a Director of Software Engineering at a large CDN. I have zero formal computer science training. I have a BA in Philosophy, and haven't taken any classes on programming or boot camps or the like. I am completely self taught. It was only an issue for my first job. I used a large personal project I created as proof that I could code, and I got the job. After that, it has never been an issue that I didn't have a degree. I have also hired many developers over the years, and I only really look at schooling if they don't have any professional experience or if the work they did at school is interesting in some way. Maybe not having a degree will be a detriment at some point in my career, but my lack of a degree has never even been mentioned to me as an issue after that first job.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > I have a BA in Philosophy > Maybe not having a degree will be a detriment at some point in my career Something's gone wrong here.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - ysavir 5y ago
      I think they meant a CS or related degree.
    - cortesoft 5y ago
      Yeah, I meant a CS degree
  - la_fayette 5y ago
    The question is rather what one needs to know, to be a good software engineer? Formally, I guess if you learn Logic in your philosophy courses you know everything you need to do programming. Moreover if you know about Plato's Forms you basically know the basics about object oriented programming... Software design on the other hand is something you can only learn by experience anyway... I had an software architecture course at university, which made only sense to me a couple of years later...
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  That's pretty much a waste of 4 years unless you can afford that luxury. I started working before getting my BS in CS (and worked during it) and there was nothing I needed for my job. I really enjoyed a few exams (especially Logic and Automata) and I thought they were nice brain bending subjects. A few exams (especially on databases and programming) were trivial because I knew that from the inside and out. The only reason I did it was that it was cheap in my country, I had to spend only 12k€ (if we exclude the collective 80 years of taxes my parents had to pay before that) and at the time more companies were requiring a degree. Just start coding while you can and software developers are in demand.
wayoutthere 5y ago
Yes this is good advice. RPA isn’t sexy, but it gets you some at-bats on hard technical problems. Once you’ve solved some of those, you’ve learned a few things that are probably applicable elsewhere and can start working your way up the tech ladder. It’s never been easier to jump from being an informally trained IT generalist into a development career with exponential salary growth along the way — companies like mine have accepted the fact that qualified talent is just too expensive right now; so we need to hire for potential and invest in people or else we will have no pipeline of junior devs.
- LoudPipes 5y ago
  Great advice. I would add to get these certs onto your linkedin profile, and to create a portfolio for employers to view. However - be advised that RPA doesn't usually pay very well (but might be more than you're making now), but it can get you into a position inside a company to move to a web or other developer position. Good luck to you!
- stonemetal12 5y ago
  More to the point "Not Sexy" is important. Hot fields raise artificial barriers to entry because they are flooded with applicants of dubious quality.
core-utility 5y ago
I'd agree with this. My first internship in my CS degree was doing Excel automation in VBA for a business unit. It quickly grew to "hey, this guy can automate your mundane tasks" and I became very popular very quickly. It taught me at what point automation is worth it [1], and many of my clients were performing hours-long tasks weekly that I automated in less time than 1 single week's work would take them. Needless to say I had some happy clients. The hardest parts are figuring out the problem they don't know they have because they think it's normal, and the unfortunate cases of "sorry I can't help you" because the solution is more complex than the problem. [1]: https://xkcd.com/1205/ https://xkcd.com/1205/

shureluck 5y ago

+1. This is a very good and well-rounded response. I might add that for tech engineering of any type, getting a BS in Computer Science (from a reputable school) is insanely helpful in the long run if there is an interest in going further in your career and it does not lock a person into one particular track.

oblio 5y ago
Yeah, but getting that bachelor's at a good school is a full time job. I'm not sure he can afford 4 years away from work.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  Community college. One can absolutely get a technical AS from a community college while working full time, it might not be a CS degree, but I bet it will fall under the "or similar" category for most purposes. A more "job focused" AS degree would probably help the OP get out of their current career rut quickly. Given the current job market, companies might be willing to take a chance on someone who successfully completed some technical classes at night already. In recent years, it has become much more common for community colleges to partner with a larger university to offer AS -> BS paths. The AS will serve as a good checkpoint too. Since, we know how life can be, especially in one's 30s-40s; our situations can change dramatically in the span of a few years.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Yeah, but the comment I was replying to said: > BS in Computer Science (from a reputable school)
tomc1985 5y ago
Honestly, a BS in anything is helpful. As a SWE at large the number of teammates I've had with CS degrees I can count on one hand, everyone else came from another walk of life
- dymk 5y ago
  Personally, I’ve experienced the opposite. Almost all my coworkers have at least a BS in CS/CE/DS and only a couple have an alternative such as a bootcamp.
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    Software is a diverse field! I've worked at pure software companies employing largely CS people; specialized technical software companies employing more mechanical/aerospace engineers; and in business-focused software companies employing people with non-traditional tech backgrounds.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    My guess is this depends when you got into tech. I am a lifer and have been at it since high school; most of my peers got in through sheer passion, when it wasn't nearly as crowded
avgDev 5y ago
Honestly, any state school should do. I graduated with high honors from just an average state school and have no problems getting interview requests at fortune 500 companies and at amazon/fb. I do pass interviews also :).
cortesoft 5y ago
I have been in professional software development for 15 years, at both startups and a fortune 15. I have worked as both an individual contributor writing code, and am now a Director of Software Engineering at a large CDN. I have zero formal computer science training. I have a BA in Philosophy, and haven't taken any classes on programming or boot camps or the like. I am completely self taught. It was only an issue for my first job. I used a large personal project I created as proof that I could code, and I got the job. After that, it has never been an issue that I didn't have a degree. I have also hired many developers over the years, and I only really look at schooling if they don't have any professional experience or if the work they did at school is interesting in some way. Maybe not having a degree will be a detriment at some point in my career, but my lack of a degree has never even been mentioned to me as an issue after that first job.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > I have a BA in Philosophy > Maybe not having a degree will be a detriment at some point in my career Something's gone wrong here.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ysavir 5y ago
    I think they meant a CS or related degree.
  - cortesoft 5y ago
    Yeah, I meant a CS degree
- la_fayette 5y ago
  The question is rather what one needs to know, to be a good software engineer? Formally, I guess if you learn Logic in your philosophy courses you know everything you need to do programming. Moreover if you know about Plato's Forms you basically know the basics about object oriented programming... Software design on the other hand is something you can only learn by experience anyway... I had an software architecture course at university, which made only sense to me a couple of years later...
jokethrowaway 5y ago
That's pretty much a waste of 4 years unless you can afford that luxury. I started working before getting my BS in CS (and worked during it) and there was nothing I needed for my job. I really enjoyed a few exams (especially Logic and Automata) and I thought they were nice brain bending subjects. A few exams (especially on databases and programming) were trivial because I knew that from the inside and out. The only reason I did it was that it was cheap in my country, I had to spend only 12k€ (if we exclude the collective 80 years of taxes my parents had to pay before that) and at the time more companies were requiring a degree. Just start coding while you can and software developers are in demand.

wayoutthere 5y ago

Yes this is good advice. RPA isn’t sexy, but it gets you some at-bats on hard technical problems. Once you’ve solved some of those, you’ve learned a few things that are probably applicable elsewhere and can start working your way up the tech ladder. It’s never been easier to jump from being an informally trained IT generalist into a development career with exponential salary growth along the way — companies like mine have accepted the fact that qualified talent is just too expensive right now; so we need to hire for potential and invest in people or else we will have no pipeline of junior devs.

LoudPipes 5y ago
Great advice. I would add to get these certs onto your linkedin profile, and to create a portfolio for employers to view. However - be advised that RPA doesn't usually pay very well (but might be more than you're making now), but it can get you into a position inside a company to move to a web or other developer position. Good luck to you!
stonemetal12 5y ago
More to the point "Not Sexy" is important. Hot fields raise artificial barriers to entry because they are flooded with applicants of dubious quality.

core-utility 5y ago

I'd agree with this. My first internship in my CS degree was doing Excel automation in VBA for a business unit. It quickly grew to "hey, this guy can automate your mundane tasks" and I became very popular very quickly. It taught me at what point automation is worth it [1], and many of my clients were performing hours-long tasks weekly that I automated in less time than 1 single week's work would take them. Needless to say I had some happy clients. The hardest parts are figuring out the problem they don't know they have because they think it's normal, and the unfortunate cases of "sorry I can't help you" because the solution is more complex than the problem. [1]: https://xkcd.com/1205/ https://xkcd.com/1205/