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The people that buy the catalytic converters and buy these metals on the secondary market really need to be more highly regulated and inspected. Someone showin

The people that buy the catalytic converters and buy these metals on the secondary market really need to be more highly regulated and inspected. Someone showing up with a van full of catalytic converters needs to get bounced out of every metal scrapyard they show up to.

kube-system 5y ago
There have been a lot of states that have passed regulation requiring documentation for scrap transactions regarding catalytic converters, and other frequently stolen types of scrap. But I'm not sure that it's as easy as kicking people out for having a lot of them. The people who have legitimate scrap also tend to have a lot of it, because it is waste from their business.
- cyral 5y ago
  I wonder how they are enforced. I'm sure many shops are not keeping up with passed regulations much less abiding by them if they even know about them.
  - TrispusAttucks 5y ago
    I recycle bulk amounts of aluminum cans. Mostly because it's good for humans and the earth but you also get a small check. Usually deliver a truck load to the recycling plant. I always have to show ID and they often cut a check if it's over a certain dollar amount. So there are definite attempts to keep a light on things to prevent black markets and stay credible and prevent fraud. Copper piping is also a big problem area. Thieves will go and strip entire houses of all copper piping in a night.
Spooky23 5y ago
It’s a more complex issue than you might think. There’s a lot of grey market business in auto repair and parts, and you’ll just push the shady stuff underground and support a new business for organized crime. The only controls that work are with limited source scrap like railroad equipment. You’ll get banned from a scrapyard if you show up with rail ties or signal components.
sillysaurusx 5y ago
And here I actually thought that the thieves smelted their own block of palladium from catalytic converters. You're probably right that they offload them to some unscrupulous smelter. Kind of disappointing. Still, regulated how? What you're talking about is criminal activity. Are regulations the antidote to that? And would you really turn down a million dollars if someone showed up and offered it to you with no questions asked? I'd like to think I would, but that'd be a tough decision. (One thief group got caught with $300k in cash. That means whoever they sold the converters to must've made way more, by definition.)
- zizee 5y ago
  > Still, regulated how? What you're talking about is criminal activity. Are regulations the antidote to that? Perhaps similar to pawn shops, which (I think) have to keep records of who sold you what. If you are a smelter, you should be able to account for where you get certain expensive metals that you are on-selling.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  > Still, regulated how? What you're talking about is criminal activity. Are regulations the antidote to that? Eg. signed ownership document for every catalytic converter on premises (scrap yards,...), with a written 'source' - eg, removed from car with VIN 123...789, or replaced on care with VIN 123...789 with a proof of purchase of a new one (i'm guessing it's illegal to drive without one). It's a pain in the ass to implement, but could work.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Ok, so I throw them all in a container and ship them to Mexico where they don’t ask questions like this.
    - Scoundreller 5y ago
      Just have customs focus more on illegal exports and less on bothering returning citizens. But that'll never happen. Customs needs to keep up the facade that 'it's keeping you safe' by wasting your time.
Lammy 5y ago
Instead of more surveillance and regulation how about we as a society work to ensure prosperity for everyone so there's no reason for anyone to want to scavenge trace metals from car parts?
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  Prosperity and insecure property ownership rights don't go together - see every third world shantytown where making something which could be a road out of pauperdom gets it seized or you extorted by local strongmen.
- jdlshore 5y ago
  That’s a laudable goal, but the suggestion comes across as either naive or disingenuous. I assume that’s why you’re being downvoted. Sure, work to ensure prosperity. But don’t let that stop you from implementing faster, more tractable solutions.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    It isn't naive when practically every other Western country has far less homeless drug addicts and people in desperate poverty than the US. Unless I am naive and the incentives to commit crimes like this do not come from poverty and the lack of opportunity. Cars in other countries have catalytic converters. Is this kind of crime as rampant there?
- twblalock 5y ago
  It’s not like people are stealing catalytic converters because they can’t afford food. To a large extent this is organized crime. These are not thefts of desperation caused by poverty, and the thefts are not perpetrated by individuals stealing one or two catalytic converters at a time. There are crews of thieves stealing dozens of converters in a night and selling them in bulk to unscrupulous purchasers.
bluGill 5y ago
I suspect most are half legitimate. Tow cars for free, or steal parts when it is slow
gopher_space 5y ago
They're taking them to backwoods smelting places, according to the cop I spoke with. Who'd be buying meth-smelted blocks of metal? I'm assuming the quality would be poor.
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  Well if you are already in the purifying ores business it would be better than what they usually work with. It would serve as a laundering step - it isn't stolen catalytic converters with serial numbers or ones with their numbers filed off, it is generic low quality scrap metal now.
dkdk8283 5y ago
It’s an arms race. Regulation is a terrible option as governments are not known for their efficiency. It will likely hurt honest people and thieves will adapt and pivot, creating a “laundering” market.
bin_bash 5y ago
They're already smuggling them out of the country in shipping containers.
flatiron 5y ago
When I built my house the town made me connect to the town sewer and put a manhole cover on the connection. So I go to the scrap yard to buy a manhole cover. Dude behind me had about 20 manhole covers in his truck and was obvious strung out. No questions asked from the scrap dude. He seemed like a regular.
jinto36 5y ago
Around here (NY, USA) the metal recycling places I've been to keep a copy of your drivers license on file, and check it every time you go to the office to cash out. They're rather good at picking up suspicious activity. I've only been to the large facilities though, so there might be some smaller less scrupulous facilities somewhere of course.

kube-system 5y ago

There have been a lot of states that have passed regulation requiring documentation for scrap transactions regarding catalytic converters, and other frequently stolen types of scrap. But I'm not sure that it's as easy as kicking people out for having a lot of them. The people who have legitimate scrap also tend to have a lot of it, because it is waste from their business.

cyral 5y ago
I wonder how they are enforced. I'm sure many shops are not keeping up with passed regulations much less abiding by them if they even know about them.
- TrispusAttucks 5y ago
  I recycle bulk amounts of aluminum cans. Mostly because it's good for humans and the earth but you also get a small check. Usually deliver a truck load to the recycling plant. I always have to show ID and they often cut a check if it's over a certain dollar amount. So there are definite attempts to keep a light on things to prevent black markets and stay credible and prevent fraud. Copper piping is also a big problem area. Thieves will go and strip entire houses of all copper piping in a night.

Spooky23 5y ago

It’s a more complex issue than you might think. There’s a lot of grey market business in auto repair and parts, and you’ll just push the shady stuff underground and support a new business for organized crime. The only controls that work are with limited source scrap like railroad equipment. You’ll get banned from a scrapyard if you show up with rail ties or signal components.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

And here I actually thought that the thieves smelted their own block of palladium from catalytic converters. You're probably right that they offload them to some unscrupulous smelter. Kind of disappointing. Still, regulated how? What you're talking about is criminal activity. Are regulations the antidote to that? And would you really turn down a million dollars if someone showed up and offered it to you with no questions asked? I'd like to think I would, but that'd be a tough decision. (One thief group got caught with $300k in cash. That means whoever they sold the converters to must've made way more, by definition.)

zizee 5y ago
> Still, regulated how? What you're talking about is criminal activity. Are regulations the antidote to that? Perhaps similar to pawn shops, which (I think) have to keep records of who sold you what. If you are a smelter, you should be able to account for where you get certain expensive metals that you are on-selling.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
> Still, regulated how? What you're talking about is criminal activity. Are regulations the antidote to that? Eg. signed ownership document for every catalytic converter on premises (scrap yards,...), with a written 'source' - eg, removed from car with VIN 123...789, or replaced on care with VIN 123...789 with a proof of purchase of a new one (i'm guessing it's illegal to drive without one). It's a pain in the ass to implement, but could work.
- refurb 5y ago
  Ok, so I throw them all in a container and ship them to Mexico where they don’t ask questions like this.
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    Just have customs focus more on illegal exports and less on bothering returning citizens. But that'll never happen. Customs needs to keep up the facade that 'it's keeping you safe' by wasting your time.

Lammy 5y ago

Instead of more surveillance and regulation how about we as a society work to ensure prosperity for everyone so there's no reason for anyone to want to scavenge trace metals from car parts?

Nasrudith 5y ago
Prosperity and insecure property ownership rights don't go together - see every third world shantytown where making something which could be a road out of pauperdom gets it seized or you extorted by local strongmen.
jdlshore 5y ago
That’s a laudable goal, but the suggestion comes across as either naive or disingenuous. I assume that’s why you’re being downvoted. Sure, work to ensure prosperity. But don’t let that stop you from implementing faster, more tractable solutions.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  It isn't naive when practically every other Western country has far less homeless drug addicts and people in desperate poverty than the US. Unless I am naive and the incentives to commit crimes like this do not come from poverty and the lack of opportunity. Cars in other countries have catalytic converters. Is this kind of crime as rampant there?
twblalock 5y ago
It’s not like people are stealing catalytic converters because they can’t afford food. To a large extent this is organized crime. These are not thefts of desperation caused by poverty, and the thefts are not perpetrated by individuals stealing one or two catalytic converters at a time. There are crews of thieves stealing dozens of converters in a night and selling them in bulk to unscrupulous purchasers.

bluGill 5y ago

I suspect most are half legitimate. Tow cars for free, or steal parts when it is slow

gopher_space 5y ago

They're taking them to backwoods smelting places, according to the cop I spoke with. Who'd be buying meth-smelted blocks of metal? I'm assuming the quality would be poor.

Nasrudith 5y ago
Well if you are already in the purifying ores business it would be better than what they usually work with. It would serve as a laundering step - it isn't stolen catalytic converters with serial numbers or ones with their numbers filed off, it is generic low quality scrap metal now.

dkdk8283 5y ago

It’s an arms race. Regulation is a terrible option as governments are not known for their efficiency. It will likely hurt honest people and thieves will adapt and pivot, creating a “laundering” market.

bin_bash 5y ago

They're already smuggling them out of the country in shipping containers.

flatiron 5y ago

When I built my house the town made me connect to the town sewer and put a manhole cover on the connection. So I go to the scrap yard to buy a manhole cover. Dude behind me had about 20 manhole covers in his truck and was obvious strung out. No questions asked from the scrap dude. He seemed like a regular.

jinto36 5y ago

Around here (NY, USA) the metal recycling places I've been to keep a copy of your drivers license on file, and check it every time you go to the office to cash out. They're rather good at picking up suspicious activity. I've only been to the large facilities though, so there might be some smaller less scrupulous facilities somewhere of course.