4 ms·

By that metric we shouldn't worry about measles, either. Survival rate is 99.9 %, the change of getting encephalitis is only 1 in 10000. But somehow we do. And

By that metric we shouldn't worry about measles, either. Survival rate is 99.9 %, the change of getting encephalitis is only 1 in 10000. But somehow we do. And why is everyone over 50 running out to get the shingles vaccine? It's not like shingles kill you.

josephcsible 5y ago
The difference between COVID and measles is that the measles vaccine is actually effective (i.e., people vaccinated against measles never need to worry about it or take precautions against it in everyday life again), and it's also been around long enough to be confident there's no long-term side effects.
- ufo 5y ago
  The measles vaccine is not perfect either. The only reason we don't have to worry abour measles is because enough people have been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and bring down the transmission to zero. However, if vaccination rates drop even a little bit then outbreaks can pop up again because measles is extremely contagious.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > However, if vaccination rates drop even a little bit then outbreaks can pop up again because measles is extremely transmissable. But in cases when that's happened, how many people caught "breakthrough" measles, as opposed to unvaccinated people catching measles?
    - gus_massa 5y ago
      Not exactly what you are asking, but close enough: From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine > This is often done at age 15 to 18 months. After one dose at the age of nine months 85% are immune, while a dose at twelve months results in 95% immunity. This graphic is interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Measles_Canada_1924-2018.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Me... With one dose the case number is reduced a lot, but there are still some smaller peaks aver few years. After the second dose was made mandatory, the number of cases goes to almost zero. I'm not sure about Canada, but here in Argentina kids get two doses, and every 5-10 years there is a effort to give an additional dose to some groups with more risk (like small children).
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    Like last years flu vaccines, the current covid vaccines are targeting last years version of the virus, since then the virus has evolved to escape the vaccine[0]. 100% uptake of the current vaccine won't eliminate the virus. [0]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34593004/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34593004/
  - nradov 5y ago
    I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated, but since the vaccines don't reliably prevent transmission there will be no significant herd immunity effect. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
fallingknife 5y ago
If you have a vaccine that protects against something that is 0.1% deadly you should take it. But when measles was out in the wild killing people we didn't wear masks and have lockdowns to stop it either.
- pfisch 5y ago
  There is no time in US history when measles killed anywhere near 100k+ people per year. The numbers I am seeing are in the thousands. https://i1.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/anti-vax-measles-graph.png?resize=838%2C594&ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/a... Covid has killed upwards of 770k people in the US.
  - ufo 5y ago
    Comparing death rates in the population is a misleading comparison. In a world of endemic measles most people get measles at some point; new outbreaks tend to hit mostly children, because they weren't born yet during the previous outbreak. To compare disease lethality we have to look at the number of infected patients, not the total population. If measles were a brand-new disease introduced today, it would also be a bloodbath.
    - pfisch 5y ago
      This is a bunch of crazy person nonsense. You are saying we shouldn't look at death rates in the population when making health policy? Are you an insane person??? We should respond equally to a disease killing 1000 people per year vs 1 million per year or 10 million per year!??
      - ufo 5y ago
        I'm saying that if measles were a brand new disease, it's possible that it would cause a pandemic that's even worse than covid-19 was. Measles is nasty.
        5y ago

josephcsible 5y ago

The difference between COVID and measles is that the measles vaccine is actually effective (i.e., people vaccinated against measles never need to worry about it or take precautions against it in everyday life again), and it's also been around long enough to be confident there's no long-term side effects.

ufo 5y ago
The measles vaccine is not perfect either. The only reason we don't have to worry abour measles is because enough people have been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and bring down the transmission to zero. However, if vaccination rates drop even a little bit then outbreaks can pop up again because measles is extremely contagious.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > However, if vaccination rates drop even a little bit then outbreaks can pop up again because measles is extremely transmissable. But in cases when that's happened, how many people caught "breakthrough" measles, as opposed to unvaccinated people catching measles?
  - gus_massa 5y ago
    Not exactly what you are asking, but close enough: From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine > This is often done at age 15 to 18 months. After one dose at the age of nine months 85% are immune, while a dose at twelve months results in 95% immunity. This graphic is interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Measles_Canada_1924-2018.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Me... With one dose the case number is reduced a lot, but there are still some smaller peaks aver few years. After the second dose was made mandatory, the number of cases goes to almost zero. I'm not sure about Canada, but here in Argentina kids get two doses, and every 5-10 years there is a effort to give an additional dose to some groups with more risk (like small children).
- willcipriano 5y ago
  Like last years flu vaccines, the current covid vaccines are targeting last years version of the virus, since then the virus has evolved to escape the vaccine[0]. 100% uptake of the current vaccine won't eliminate the virus. [0]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34593004/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34593004/
- nradov 5y ago
  I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated, but since the vaccines don't reliably prevent transmission there will be no significant herd immunity effect. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

fallingknife 5y ago

If you have a vaccine that protects against something that is 0.1% deadly you should take it. But when measles was out in the wild killing people we didn't wear masks and have lockdowns to stop it either.

pfisch 5y ago
There is no time in US history when measles killed anywhere near 100k+ people per year. The numbers I am seeing are in the thousands. https://i1.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/anti-vax-measles-graph.png?resize=838%2C594&ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/a... Covid has killed upwards of 770k people in the US.
- ufo 5y ago
  Comparing death rates in the population is a misleading comparison. In a world of endemic measles most people get measles at some point; new outbreaks tend to hit mostly children, because they weren't born yet during the previous outbreak. To compare disease lethality we have to look at the number of infected patients, not the total population. If measles were a brand-new disease introduced today, it would also be a bloodbath.
  - pfisch 5y ago
    This is a bunch of crazy person nonsense. You are saying we shouldn't look at death rates in the population when making health policy? Are you an insane person??? We should respond equally to a disease killing 1000 people per year vs 1 million per year or 10 million per year!??
    - ufo 5y ago
      I'm saying that if measles were a brand new disease, it's possible that it would cause a pandemic that's even worse than covid-19 was. Measles is nasty.
      - 5y ago