5 ms·

I think that's a stronger example than the one proposed. But the outcome is similar. The neighbors are forcibly giving you heat. It just happens that you are ok

by aflag 5y ago

I think that's a stronger example than the one proposed. But the outcome is similar. The neighbors are forcibly giving you heat. It just happens that you are ok with 19C. However, if you wanted your home to be cooler than that, to be the same as outside, you'd then have to pay for an AC to do that because your neighbors are making the environment around them hotter. I think stealing is not only taking something that's not yours, but taking something that's not yours without permission. As soon as they start irradiating the heat all over the place, they are effectively giving everyone permission to use it. It's not like you can somehow easily stop or give them back the heat. If they didn't want the heat to escape, then they need to invest in better insulation.

elliekelly 5y ago
My first apartment in Boston was like this. I was on the top floor and I’d have to leave the windows open all winter because it was so unbearably hot from the heat being cranked up in the units below me. I remember nearly sweating to death during a major snowstorm because I had closed the windows to keep the snow out but keeping the snow out meant I kept all of the hot air in!
- pessimizer 5y ago
  When you're on the top floor, it's often a catch-22 to do this. Heating for the building can be controlled by a system that takes as input the temperatures from sensors in apartments on the top and bottom floors. So when you open the windows to lower the temperature in your apartment, the system will react by cranking up the heat for the building.
- db48x 5y ago
  What you need is some kind of mesh covering for the window that lets air through but not larger particles such as ice crystals or bugs.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    Like window screens...?
    - tartoran 5y ago
      Yes, window screens allow you to keep windows open when it’s snowing. However, if it’s very windy/stormy you’d still get a lot of water in and probably shutting a part of the window would be necessary.
      - theshadowknows 5y ago
        Yep my wife and I moved to Connecticut from North Carolina. The summers here are very mild compared to what we are used to and as such leave the windows open to stay cool. But as you mentioned the screens do allow in rain if it’s raining and windy. Funny I never thought about seeing if there’s an alternative material for it.
        graftak 5y ago
        You don't have (the option for) ventilation shafts in your window frames[0]? Here in the Netherlands (and north-west EU) many homes have those, they're designed to allow fresh air to circulate without the need for opening a window. Most houses have those except for really old ones (which have 'natural' ventilation, i.e. creeks) or really new ones (which have a central ventilation system). [0] for example https://www.duco.eu/Wes/CDN/1/Products/ProductImages/2016-08-31%2013.18.26.151%20-%20EasyFit.jpg https://www.duco.eu/Wes/CDN/1/Products/ProductImages/2016-08...
        db48x 5y ago
        The option exists, but double–hung windows are more popular.
  - itronitron 5y ago
    One nice thing about winter heat is that it's just too dry for many insects to survive long. Obviously this depends on the insect, I've noticed that yellow jackets die within a day but lady bugs can survive much longer.
- 101008 5y ago
  My God, I think I was crazy. It happened to me in several hotels in USA and Europe, I had to leave window open in winter because it was unbereable to be in the hotel room, even with the heating turned off. Glad I am not the only one!
- galago 5y ago
  I currently live in the Boston area in an apt. built in 1927. Steam heat. I keep my windows cracked open pretty much all Winter because even with the radiator turned off, I still get too much heat from all sides. Yes, I do have wire mesh screens on my windows.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  https://www.npr.org/2020/12/10/945136599/how-spanish-flu-pandemic-changed-home-heat-radiators https://www.npr.org/2020/12/10/945136599/how-spanish-flu-pan... It was actually designed for this, so you could have fresh air during a pandemic in the winter :)
- saalweachter 5y ago
  Few things have the same $:QoL ratio as buying insulated pipe wrap for the hot pipe running floor to ceiling through your apartment's bathroom.
dataflow 5y ago
> As soon as they start irradiating the heat all over the place, they are effectively giving everyone permission to use it. Hmm I wouldn't agree with that. I think the Wikipedia definition [1] captures it more accurately: theft is taking someone's property or services without their consent and with the intention to deprive them of it. In the case of heat, you're neither taking "property" (and "services" would be quite a stretch, unless they provide heating as a service...) noor are you "depriving" them of their heat, so it cannot be theft. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
- jjeaff 5y ago
  There is one complexity that you left out, which is that they are unknowingly spending more money on heat because of the "freeloader" that they share a wall with. So I wouldn't call it theft. But it seems like a clear case of freeloading. It's like that roommate that never does the dishes because they know you will do them when it gets bad enough. Are they stealing your time? I suppose not, but they aren't doing their part.
  - dataflow 5y ago
    I wouldn't say it's comparable to that. In this case, they would've faced the exact same problem (even worse, actually), if their neighbor hadn't been home and hence didn't have anything generating heat at all, which the neighbor has every right to do, and which would've provided zero grounds for them to complain. That's drastically different from the dishwashing case where the roommate would actually be using more dishes by their presence than by their absence, not equal (or less).
    - bitcurious 5y ago
      > I wouldn't say it's comparable to that. In this case, they would've faced the exact same problem (even worse, actually), if their neighbor hadn't been home and hence didn't have anything generating heat at all, which the neighbor has every right to do, and which would've provided zero grounds for them to complain. At my current residence, the building bylaws require that all units be heated to 60f during the winter, to prevent this exact scenario. So whether it’s a right is very local.
BeFlatXIII 5y ago
> As soon as they start irradiating the heat all over the place, they are effectively giving everyone permission to use it. Similarly, it's not theft to just take whatever is left on the curb the evening leading into grabage collection day.

by aflag 5y ago

elliekelly 5y ago

My first apartment in Boston was like this. I was on the top floor and I’d have to leave the windows open all winter because it was so unbearably hot from the heat being cranked up in the units below me. I remember nearly sweating to death during a major snowstorm because I had closed the windows to keep the snow out but keeping the snow out meant I kept all of the hot air in!

pessimizer 5y ago
When you're on the top floor, it's often a catch-22 to do this. Heating for the building can be controlled by a system that takes as input the temperatures from sensors in apartments on the top and bottom floors. So when you open the windows to lower the temperature in your apartment, the system will react by cranking up the heat for the building.
db48x 5y ago
What you need is some kind of mesh covering for the window that lets air through but not larger particles such as ice crystals or bugs.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Like window screens...?
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Yes, window screens allow you to keep windows open when it’s snowing. However, if it’s very windy/stormy you’d still get a lot of water in and probably shutting a part of the window would be necessary.
    - theshadowknows 5y ago
      Yep my wife and I moved to Connecticut from North Carolina. The summers here are very mild compared to what we are used to and as such leave the windows open to stay cool. But as you mentioned the screens do allow in rain if it’s raining and windy. Funny I never thought about seeing if there’s an alternative material for it.
      - graftak 5y ago
        You don't have (the option for) ventilation shafts in your window frames[0]? Here in the Netherlands (and north-west EU) many homes have those, they're designed to allow fresh air to circulate without the need for opening a window. Most houses have those except for really old ones (which have 'natural' ventilation, i.e. creeks) or really new ones (which have a central ventilation system). [0] for example https://www.duco.eu/Wes/CDN/1/Products/ProductImages/2016-08-31%2013.18.26.151%20-%20EasyFit.jpg https://www.duco.eu/Wes/CDN/1/Products/ProductImages/2016-08...
        db48x 5y ago
        The option exists, but double–hung windows are more popular.
- itronitron 5y ago
  One nice thing about winter heat is that it's just too dry for many insects to survive long. Obviously this depends on the insect, I've noticed that yellow jackets die within a day but lady bugs can survive much longer.
101008 5y ago
My God, I think I was crazy. It happened to me in several hotels in USA and Europe, I had to leave window open in winter because it was unbereable to be in the hotel room, even with the heating turned off. Glad I am not the only one!
galago 5y ago
I currently live in the Boston area in an apt. built in 1927. Steam heat. I keep my windows cracked open pretty much all Winter because even with the radiator turned off, I still get too much heat from all sides. Yes, I do have wire mesh screens on my windows.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/10/945136599/how-spanish-flu-pandemic-changed-home-heat-radiators https://www.npr.org/2020/12/10/945136599/how-spanish-flu-pan... It was actually designed for this, so you could have fresh air during a pandemic in the winter :)
saalweachter 5y ago
Few things have the same $:QoL ratio as buying insulated pipe wrap for the hot pipe running floor to ceiling through your apartment's bathroom.

dataflow 5y ago

> As soon as they start irradiating the heat all over the place, they are effectively giving everyone permission to use it. Hmm I wouldn't agree with that. I think the Wikipedia definition [1] captures it more accurately: theft is taking someone's property or services without their consent and with the intention to deprive them of it. In the case of heat, you're neither taking "property" (and "services" would be quite a stretch, unless they provide heating as a service...) noor are you "depriving" them of their heat, so it cannot be theft. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

jjeaff 5y ago
There is one complexity that you left out, which is that they are unknowingly spending more money on heat because of the "freeloader" that they share a wall with. So I wouldn't call it theft. But it seems like a clear case of freeloading. It's like that roommate that never does the dishes because they know you will do them when it gets bad enough. Are they stealing your time? I suppose not, but they aren't doing their part.
- dataflow 5y ago
  I wouldn't say it's comparable to that. In this case, they would've faced the exact same problem (even worse, actually), if their neighbor hadn't been home and hence didn't have anything generating heat at all, which the neighbor has every right to do, and which would've provided zero grounds for them to complain. That's drastically different from the dishwashing case where the roommate would actually be using more dishes by their presence than by their absence, not equal (or less).
  - bitcurious 5y ago
    > I wouldn't say it's comparable to that. In this case, they would've faced the exact same problem (even worse, actually), if their neighbor hadn't been home and hence didn't have anything generating heat at all, which the neighbor has every right to do, and which would've provided zero grounds for them to complain. At my current residence, the building bylaws require that all units be heated to 60f during the winter, to prevent this exact scenario. So whether it’s a right is very local.

BeFlatXIII 5y ago

> As soon as they start irradiating the heat all over the place, they are effectively giving everyone permission to use it. Similarly, it's not theft to just take whatever is left on the curb the evening leading into grabage collection day.