5 ms·

There's no such thing as "raw" intelligence. Those people you find so incredibly impressive who have done such worthwhile things? Every single one of them suck

There's no such thing as "raw" intelligence. Those people you find so incredibly impressive who have done such worthwhile things? Every single one of them sucks ass at a multitude of things. Every single one of them would see something in your set of capabilities that would astound them. It takes a vast constellation of capabilities, including yours, to create and sustain our world.

callesgg 5y ago
Yes there is, with that said it is not what matters in his examples.
carnitine 5y ago
John von Neumann could multiply eight digit numbers mentally and hold conversation in multiple languages by the age of six. How could that be attributed to anything but raw intelligence? Had his parents somehow stumbled upon the perfect formula for child rearing in 1900s Hungary?
- paulpauper 5y ago
  dismissing IQ, intelligence is just another social fad. it's wrong.
  - EugeneOZ 5y ago
    Maybe you'll change your opinion after reading the list of his achievements. Or just after looking at the size of that list.
- throwaway2331 5y ago
  Parlor tricks of the mind and a life of leisure allow for certain mental tools to flourish, rather than be vestigialized. Eight digit mental multiplication isn't a difficult feat. All it requires is you to be able to hold 16 digits in your head. Or more easily, 4 chunks of 4 digits. If you practice and focus on it, you too can relearn how to do long mental arithmetic. But this also requires you're still able to "relax" and empty your mind like a child's, rather than be constricted into an adult's neurotic "I must always be doing something." Holding conversations in multiple languages? Many bilingual children could join von Neumann, if their parents were as wealthy and involved. Wealth must be present; not only because physical resources give way to access to better tutors and learning material, but also to a tranquility of the mind and soul, that is not found anywhere else but the leisure class (i.e. if you're an upper middle class parent trying to "push" your child into enriching endeavors, all you're teaching is mechanical skill, at the cost of your child's creativity and individual expression -- their soul. Something I've seen too many times). This is also why anyone who's been in the corporate world for too long, is forever locked out of any great creative or mental achievements: the mental tools needed have atrophied, and it simply is unlikely you'll be able to retrain them, unless some drastic lifestyle change happens (or you do just the right amount of drugs, another improbability). t. Someone that could also do very long mental arithmetic and "hold conversations" in multiple languages at 6. Going from upper class to being a prole, due to a certain ideological group, has left me painly aware of all the things I've lost. Pieces of the mind and soul that are locked away from the rest; all due to economic circumstance.
- smusamashah 5y ago
  There are videos of a 4 year old girl who can speak in the languages. https://youtu.be/7nzpnQZcFw0 https://youtu.be/7nzpnQZcFw0 Can you explain this?
flatiron 5y ago
What really impress me are people who are great at many varied things. The creator of Stardew valley drew every image. Composed every song. Coded every line. It’s an insane accomplishment.
- sitkack 5y ago
  Also super rare (currently), I am extremely curious what the ratio of nurture to nature is for these folks? Having crossed paths with a couple of folks like this they don't seem much different than other people. Humans are basically wonderful all purpose organisms, with the right interest and enough time on task they can do almost anything. Maybe a unique perspective or a deeply ingrained and unflappable "lets try this or how does this work?" attitude is all it takes. Stay curious!
chasebank 5y ago
"There's no such thing as "raw" intelligence." Well, that's sure a bold statement. I suppose in order to have this discussion, we'd have to agree on a definition of intelligence. For me, it's one's intellectual capacity to learn. Emotionally, physically, mathematically, etc. I'd argue that there is absolutely a thing of "raw intelligence". If we have mentally handicapped and Stephen Hawking, there must be a standard bell curve of intelligence in-between.
- thioordc 5y ago
  Yea but if you are a megamind in math that doesn’t mean you are a Shakespeare level writer. Intelligence isn’t general it’s specific
  - Auracle 5y ago
    You’re very much going against the scientific consensus with that statement. General intelligence is exactly what IQ tests measure.
    - thioordc 5y ago
      I mean I don’t really need any studies. Was Einstein as good of as a writer as Shakespeare? Nope! Although I’m sure he was generally “smart” his main focus of intelligence was physics. However, after re-reading my comment I was a little unclear. When I said: “Intelligence isn’t general it’s specific“ I should have said: “My (And I think others as well) definition of intelligence is how well educated you are in a specific subject. I would never ask someone how smart they are (not useful) but I could ask if they are good at calculus (intelligence in math)”

callesgg 5y ago

Yes there is, with that said it is not what matters in his examples.

carnitine 5y ago

John von Neumann could multiply eight digit numbers mentally and hold conversation in multiple languages by the age of six. How could that be attributed to anything but raw intelligence? Had his parents somehow stumbled upon the perfect formula for child rearing in 1900s Hungary?

paulpauper 5y ago
dismissing IQ, intelligence is just another social fad. it's wrong.
- EugeneOZ 5y ago
  Maybe you'll change your opinion after reading the list of his achievements. Or just after looking at the size of that list.
throwaway2331 5y ago
Parlor tricks of the mind and a life of leisure allow for certain mental tools to flourish, rather than be vestigialized. Eight digit mental multiplication isn't a difficult feat. All it requires is you to be able to hold 16 digits in your head. Or more easily, 4 chunks of 4 digits. If you practice and focus on it, you too can relearn how to do long mental arithmetic. But this also requires you're still able to "relax" and empty your mind like a child's, rather than be constricted into an adult's neurotic "I must always be doing something." Holding conversations in multiple languages? Many bilingual children could join von Neumann, if their parents were as wealthy and involved. Wealth must be present; not only because physical resources give way to access to better tutors and learning material, but also to a tranquility of the mind and soul, that is not found anywhere else but the leisure class (i.e. if you're an upper middle class parent trying to "push" your child into enriching endeavors, all you're teaching is mechanical skill, at the cost of your child's creativity and individual expression -- their soul. Something I've seen too many times). This is also why anyone who's been in the corporate world for too long, is forever locked out of any great creative or mental achievements: the mental tools needed have atrophied, and it simply is unlikely you'll be able to retrain them, unless some drastic lifestyle change happens (or you do just the right amount of drugs, another improbability). t. Someone that could also do very long mental arithmetic and "hold conversations" in multiple languages at 6. Going from upper class to being a prole, due to a certain ideological group, has left me painly aware of all the things I've lost. Pieces of the mind and soul that are locked away from the rest; all due to economic circumstance.
smusamashah 5y ago
There are videos of a 4 year old girl who can speak in the languages. https://youtu.be/7nzpnQZcFw0 https://youtu.be/7nzpnQZcFw0 Can you explain this?

flatiron 5y ago

What really impress me are people who are great at many varied things. The creator of Stardew valley drew every image. Composed every song. Coded every line. It’s an insane accomplishment.

sitkack 5y ago
Also super rare (currently), I am extremely curious what the ratio of nurture to nature is for these folks? Having crossed paths with a couple of folks like this they don't seem much different than other people. Humans are basically wonderful all purpose organisms, with the right interest and enough time on task they can do almost anything. Maybe a unique perspective or a deeply ingrained and unflappable "lets try this or how does this work?" attitude is all it takes. Stay curious!

chasebank 5y ago

"There's no such thing as "raw" intelligence." Well, that's sure a bold statement. I suppose in order to have this discussion, we'd have to agree on a definition of intelligence. For me, it's one's intellectual capacity to learn. Emotionally, physically, mathematically, etc. I'd argue that there is absolutely a thing of "raw intelligence". If we have mentally handicapped and Stephen Hawking, there must be a standard bell curve of intelligence in-between.

thioordc 5y ago
Yea but if you are a megamind in math that doesn’t mean you are a Shakespeare level writer. Intelligence isn’t general it’s specific
- Auracle 5y ago
  You’re very much going against the scientific consensus with that statement. General intelligence is exactly what IQ tests measure.
  - thioordc 5y ago
    I mean I don’t really need any studies. Was Einstein as good of as a writer as Shakespeare? Nope! Although I’m sure he was generally “smart” his main focus of intelligence was physics. However, after re-reading my comment I was a little unclear. When I said: “Intelligence isn’t general it’s specific“ I should have said: “My (And I think others as well) definition of intelligence is how well educated you are in a specific subject. I would never ask someone how smart they are (not useful) but I could ask if they are good at calculus (intelligence in math)”