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Palm oil favors tumor expansion
- uhtred 5y agoHopefully good news for Orangutans if this leads to less palm oil consumption.
- dnautics 5y agobad news for nutella eaters, though
- asdff 5y agoIf palm oil wasn't as profitable they will just grow the next most profitable thing in the orangutan habitat. The problem is one of not setting aside land for preserves vs one particular industry or another. Anything will expand to fill the space if land is offered for sale and zoned for industry.
- goalieca 5y agoDish soap and other applications remain important.
- moffkalast 5y agoYet another thing on the cancerogenic pile sigh At some point you have to ask yourself if everything but water gives us cancer.
- laluser 5y agoGotta watch out for lead in the water too!
- moffkalast 5y agoBut if my veins aren't lead lined, what will protect me from banana radiation?
- mbg721 5y agoA plantain vest. The rows of plantains attach to all of the body's normal banana receptors before the lethally radioactive bananas can, leaving you unscathed.
- artificialLimbs 5y agoIf I couldn't grow it or raise it 100 years ago, I don't want to eat it. Open to being convinced otherwise.
- skymt 5y agoNot the worst place to start, but considering palm oil has been used in cooking for thousands of years it's not clear what that principle has to do with this story.
- tshaddox 5y agoDo you mean if you personally wouldn't have been to grow it or raise it 100 years ago? Or do you mean something more like "if it wasn't widely accessible 100 years ago"?
- voz_ 5y agoWhat happened in 1921? Or is this one of those baseless "before we had cancer" comments?
- malfist 5y agoCancer wasn't invented then. In all seriousness, things like pasteurization and refrigeration make our food supply a lot safer than it used to be.
- mbg721 5y agoI realized at some point that "It's food iff your grandparents would call it food" either has to be amended to add a generation, or we have to accept Oreos pretty soon.
- bluGill 5y agoMargarine was invented in 1869. You need to go back a lot farther. You are also skipping out a lot of newer stuff that wasn't possible back then, but after serious study seems safe. Most of what was done 200 years ago is accepted as safe, but there is no actual evidence for it, and in many cases we know it wasn't. (the obvious example of using lead in finishes for food contact items)
- rackjack 5y agobeing alive gives you cancer
- hypertele-Xii 5y agoCancer is alive. That's so weird. Some part of you decided to go in a different direction. You're not advanced enough to support both. The strain on resources starves you both. Kind of like a cannibal parasite. That sure sounds like a death metal band.
- jszymborski 5y agoWith every cell division, we are not only closer to death, but roll for a "cell transformation"[0]. A transformed cell is most likely to occur in a "cancerised field" of cells. Those fields might be induced to be transformed in-turn by the original transformed cell(s). It's in this way that the snowball turns from a pea to a boulder, but all along the way there are trees ready to stop its momentum. Be it DNA repair systems, the immune system, the extra-cellular matrix, etc... An oncologist once told me (and its not hard for me to conceive), that we're all likely die with a number of tumours in us... just not likely from them. All this to say, yes everything causes cancer. When you consider the molecular biology behind it all, it's a wonder we're anything but giant, spherical, innervated tumours. Just like everything else, you make your own risk assessments in life, but the advice boils down to: avoid undue risks of cancer if you can. What "undue" and "if you can" here mean is deeply personal. [0] A fun euphemism for a cell that is cancer-like.
- justinator 5y agoTo be honest, we're in a constant state of almost having cancer, it's just that our immune system handles the little stuff before it gets out of control. Nothing causes cancer, but certain things tip the scales towards the cancer getting out of control. (about is all simplified of course)
- vmception 5y agoAnd also things can directly cause cancer by directly damaging DNA in the right places at the right time. No need to take the optimistic route. If it makes you feel better: some cancers.
- justinator 5y agoOh, well: I didn't think conceptualize, "we are always in a state of having cancer" was an optimistic view, just realistic :). But DNA gets damaged all by itself, but you're right: something like smoking for decades doesn't help matters.
- DoingIsLearning 5y agoNot trying to be pedantic but carcinogenic is something that _causes_ cancer, that is not the mechanism this study is describing with palmitic acid. The study claims that palm oil promotes the growth of metastasis of an original cancer tumour. So it is not that palm oil _causes_ cancer but that it will _potentially_ promote more agressive copying of tumurous cells into other regions of the body.
- jszymborski 5y agoWell, this study passes the "we dumped a bunch of X on cancer cells in a petri dish and they did a funny thing" red flag test. Xenographs (implanting human cancer cells into mice) have their own caveats (the immune system is almost always severely compromised), but this seems like a cool study. I'm no expert on oral cancers however. Curious to see the implication of the neuronal cells here, I'm looking forward to reading the whole manuscript.
- csours 5y agoIs nerve growth commonly considered critical in tumor growth and metastasis? So much of this sounds weird to me and I'm not sure if it's my ignorance or if this is some wacky theory.
- jszymborski 5y agoI've personally not come across it, but it just might be a blind spot for me (I've mostly studied breast and ovarian cancers). It's why I'm interested to read the manuscript closely and see what they reference re: this neuronal growth.
- Quatih 5y agoCancer cells can consume multiple energy sources, not exactly news here. Concluding that dietary palmitic acid is a problem is questionable. Palmitate is produced endogenously and dietary palmitic acid does not even influence tissue concentration [1]. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5682332/#B81 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5682332/#B81
- akiselev 5y ago> Palmitate is produced endogenously and dietary palmitic acid does not even influence tissue concentration [1]. If there's no uptake by tissue, then wouldn't the tumor have a plentiful energy source once it vascularizes? (Assuming they can metabolize palmitic acid)
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- l30n4da5 5y agoInteresting article. One thing to note is that this study seemed to (correct me if I'm wrong) focus on palmitic acid, which can be found primarily in palm oil, but can also be found in meat, cheese, and butter, to name a few other sources.
- laluser 5y agoPalm oil seems to be in everything.
- radicaldreamer 5y agoIt's a cheap oil in Asia due to a bunch of countries trying to develop their agriculture by planting palm (Indonesia etc.) Makes me think twice about having yan yan snacks and pocky's.
- gambiting 5y agoThe reason why palm oil is so widespread nowadays is because about 30 years ago it was widely promoted as THE best oil to grow - it has much higher yield than many other oils, and was seen as a "green" alternative since comparatively it takes less land than say, peanut oil. The problem is that yes, it takes less land, but the land that it can be suitably grown on is very important for other things.
- Nition 5y agoTo be fair, so is much of our other land, but we have the excuse that we already destroyed it many years ago.
- obiwan14 5y agoAnd in parts of West Africa, palm oil is the principal oil used in many recipes. Before Western vegetable oils were introduced to that part of the world, palm oil was the number one oil used in cooking, followed by groundnut (peanut) oil. A place like that would be the ideal place to study the effects of palm oil.
- scythe 5y agoTitle is bad. The article says palmitic acid, formally hexadecanoic acid, which is one of the most common — if not the most common — saturated fatty acids. It's named for palm oil, where it is predominant, but it is also found in coconut oil, lard, butter, cacao, and in smaller amounts in practically all liquid oils, with higher concentrations generally in solid fats. Better to say "Palmitic acid favors tumor expansion" or even just "Common saturated fat favors tumor expansion".
- dt3ft 5y agoWho sponsored this study?
- deusum 5y ago"Big Coconut" and the Keto Kids.
- heavyset_go 5y agoPalmitic acid is a major constituent of coconut oil.
- goboronshka 5y agoI suggest you read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes before spending more time mocking keto. Ketogenic diets have lots of backing in science and have changed many lives and posts like these can be very hurtful.
- mleonhard 5y agoThe sponsors are listed at the end of the article. In the future, please read the article before commenting. Please refrain from posting low-effort comments.
- dt3ft 5y agoMy apologies, I was looking for a heading at the end of rhe article, but the sponsors were listed as a part of the article body. For those wondering: > The study has been funded by Worldwide Cancer Research, the Asociación Española Contra el Cáncer, the Marató de TV3, the BBVA Foundation, the European Research Council, the Government of Catalonia, the Ministry of Science and Innovation of the Government of Spain, the Lilliane Bettencourt Foundation, “la Caixa” Foundation, the National Cancer Institute and the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine, Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center.
- whalesalad 5y agoTake one look at the modern production process for vegetable oil and this sort of effect is starting you right in the face. Palm, Canola, Rapeseed, Soybean, etc, they're all terrible. I avoid this shit like the plague.
- headmelted 5y agoHonest question - how? Isn't it in almost everything?
- heavyset_go 5y agoIf you cook, you can choose not to use those oils.
- guruz 5y agoCheck the "What To Eat" section here: https://fireinabottle.net/the-croissant-diet-specification/ https://fireinabottle.net/the-croissant-diet-specification/ This is also sometimes the topic in those subreddits: https://www.reddit.com/r/StopEatingSeedOils/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StopEatingSeedOils/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturatedFat/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturatedFat/
- gruez 5y ago>Take one look at the modern production process for vegetable oil and this sort of effect is starting you right in the face. Mind elaborating? Without specific details it reeks of the naturalistic fallacy or the "good old days".
- JohnWhigham 5y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago> naturalistic fallacy or the "good old days" This is not a fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect Ray Peat has been warning about seed oils for decades, I'm not sure if its bullet-proof but at least its interesting: https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml
- sebirocs 5y agoif this helps saving orangutans in borneo, i welcome it
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoA nice quote[0]: > Nutella maker, Ferrero, launched an advertising campaign in response to reassure customers that their product is safe. The company insists on keeping their recipe the same, claiming that “making Nutella without palm oil would produce an inferior substitute for the real product, it would be a step backward,” according to Fererro’s purchasing manager, Vincenzo Tapella. The smooth texture Tapella is referring to could be achieved by more expensive oils like sunflower or rapeseed but would increase the cost of production by as much as $22 million. This was basically the same BS that Johnson & Johnson used to defend BPA baby bottles before the ban. [0] https://www.prescouter.com/2017/02/dangers-palm-oil-nutella-removed-shelves/ https://www.prescouter.com/2017/02/dangers-palm-oil-nutella-...
- debacle 5y agoFunny, because hazelnut spread without palm oil tastes 500% better than with.
- QuercusMax 5y agoYeah, without the palm oil filler, it tastes much more of chocolate and hazelnut. Even better if you get rid of a bunch of the sugar, as well - Nutella is pretty much the same as cake frosting when you break it down.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoWell, if you ditch the palm oil and sugar leaving nuts and raw chocolate, I dare say it even gets healthy. Maybe they could do that - they could then return to their marketing campaign presenting Nutella as healthy (in small servings!) and avoid hefty fines for lying to their customers.
- QuercusMax 5y agoThat sounds amazingly delicious and I wish I could buy that.
- f6v 5y agoFor everyone spooked by this. Cancer thrives on many things. And there’s little survival advantage for people who can effectively fight cancer after their reproductive age. All novel carcinogens aside(radiation, air pollution, baby powder), humans often are just not equipped to fight cancer. Certain diets probably can make it a bit better or worse, but they might not be the game changer. Our best bet is technology, like CAR T cells and whatever is invented next.
- clairity 5y ago> "humans often are just not equipped to fight cancer." blanket statements like this are almost never correct. our bodies are certainly equipped to fight cancer, having evolved a number of mechanisms in that regard, it's just that cancer is relentless and the cumulative probabilities tend to catch up with a number of us eventually, which necessarily skews mortalities older. with that said, we're certainly unlikely to naturally evolve ourselves out of cancer risk in the next few millenia, so yes, technology is one of our best bets (along with developing tech to reduce novel carcinogen risks).
- f6v 5y agoThere’s a big difference between “often” and “not at all”.
- outworlder 5y ago> humans often are just not equipped to fight cancer But we are? The immune system is constantly at work killing malignant (or otherwise dysfunctional) cells. Cells themselves have mechanisms to commit suicide (apoptosis) if they are not working properly. It's only when the several mechanisms we have get defeated at the same time (often due to mutations) that cancer can even develop. If you mean, we are not as equipped as elephants or whales to fight cancer, then that's true. > there’s little survival advantage for people who can effectively fight cancer after their reproductive age There's some advantage, but as far as nature's concerned, there's indeed diminishing returns. As in, for the individual that has already reproduced there's no reason to stay alive, but this is beneficial for the offspring - until they are adults. So there's some selective pressures there, specially if you are competing against another group.
- heavyset_go 5y agoPalmitic acid also has tomes of evidence pointing towards its consumption contributing to the development of cardiovascular disease, as well.
- mountainboy 5y agoany hydrogenated oil is toxic. The article does not state if the tested palm oil was hydrogenated or not.
- ravenstine 5y agoHow does it compare to glucose/sugar?
- kazinator 5y agoIf palm oil killed cancer cells, would that make it appealing and safe to eat? If errantly reproducing cells can use a substance, it must be bad: is that the reasoning here? I would imagine that a source of water also favors tumor expansion. Cut a tumor off H2O and it will shrivel and die.
- mleonhard 5y agoI think you did not read the article. In the future, please put more effort into your comments or refrain.
- kazinator 5y agoFWIW, whatever I'm doing somehow got me ~6.4 times your karma points, in 7 years vs. your 13. (Could be that I'm just throwing a lot more shit at the wall, more of which is sticking than not.)
- mleonhard 5y agoYour reply implies that your commenting style is good because a lot of people voted up your comments. That is an instance of the bandwagon fallacy [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
- alliao 5y agoIs this the same as 3-MPCD? basically any hydrogenated oils would have this, seeing this popping up recently
- ndosnfiwjaijx 5y agoLots of "do your own research" folks here.
- gremloni 5y agoBasic question— is coconut palm? Are there multiple types of palms? Where does the oil come from?