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So another spin on what you're saying is that middle/upper-class westerners have no use for blockchain, which certainly is in line with my experience that the o

by querez 5y ago

So another spin on what you're saying is that middle/upper-class westerners have no use for blockchain, which certainly is in line with my experience that the only people who really need to rely on cryptocurrencies are ransomware people.

bradwood 5y ago
Yeah. And anyone unlucky enough to live in a place where the govt fucked the local fiat currency with hyperinflation. Zimbabwe, Turkey, Lebanon, Argentina, Venezuela, etc.
- franga2000 5y ago
  The problem still remains of how do you get crypto if all you have is near-worthless paper. Who would trade it to you? How much crypto is actually "produced" internally? International traders wouldn't want your shitty fiat. Wouldn't it make more sense to use fiat from elsewhere like EUR or USD? There's probably already a decent stream of it into the country (from exporters and remote workers) so exchange could be done internally, lessening the above problem. Its value is far more stable than any crypto, it can actually be used in foreign trade without lossy conversions, it's just as easy to use, you can get bank accounts, etc.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    No, in these places banks will steal your money.
  - mettamage 5y ago
    > International traders wouldn't want your shitty fiat. I'm sure there are local traders savvy enough to get a +30% premium in local cash which they then immediately exchange for more durable assets. So international traders wouldn't but national ones that know the country, they would. If I could sell my crypto for +30% and then immediately use that money to buy gift cards at a store (just brainstorming here) and could put those online and redeem them and cash out with a 10% slippage, allowing me to keep +20%. Why wouldn't I do it? I don't know such a method since I'm Western-European. But if I'd be from Venezuela, then I'd know to what extent a plan like this is feasible among: friends, family and perhaps even certain strangers.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    These places have wealth, in the form of foreign currencies like the USD, real property, businesses, commodities, etc. Their national currencies rapidly depreciates though, so it can only be used for short-term liqudity purposes. >>Wouldn't it make more sense to use fiat from elsewhere like EUR or USD? That's a good question. The only use-case I can see where cryptocurrencies are a better fit is when digital/international payments need to be made. Crypto allows that without any formal approval, from the state, for a USD/EUR supporting payments/e-wallet/banking firm to operate in that country.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      It could (in combination with Lightning) function as alternative to card payments in places where banking systems aren't functional. Also international waters. Also digital goods. However it won't be soon. It's financial infrastructure - just different from the ordinary. And that takes decades to build. Cards were accepted at only few establishments at first too.
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        ERC20 stablecoins on zk-Rollups could function in that role. Lightning not so much.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  Those people still overwhelmingly prefer dollars.

by querez 5y ago

bradwood 5y ago

Yeah. And anyone unlucky enough to live in a place where the govt fucked the local fiat currency with hyperinflation. Zimbabwe, Turkey, Lebanon, Argentina, Venezuela, etc.

franga2000 5y ago
The problem still remains of how do you get crypto if all you have is near-worthless paper. Who would trade it to you? How much crypto is actually "produced" internally? International traders wouldn't want your shitty fiat. Wouldn't it make more sense to use fiat from elsewhere like EUR or USD? There's probably already a decent stream of it into the country (from exporters and remote workers) so exchange could be done internally, lessening the above problem. Its value is far more stable than any crypto, it can actually be used in foreign trade without lossy conversions, it's just as easy to use, you can get bank accounts, etc.
- emteycz 5y ago
  No, in these places banks will steal your money.
- mettamage 5y ago
  > International traders wouldn't want your shitty fiat. I'm sure there are local traders savvy enough to get a +30% premium in local cash which they then immediately exchange for more durable assets. So international traders wouldn't but national ones that know the country, they would. If I could sell my crypto for +30% and then immediately use that money to buy gift cards at a store (just brainstorming here) and could put those online and redeem them and cash out with a 10% slippage, allowing me to keep +20%. Why wouldn't I do it? I don't know such a method since I'm Western-European. But if I'd be from Venezuela, then I'd know to what extent a plan like this is feasible among: friends, family and perhaps even certain strangers.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  These places have wealth, in the form of foreign currencies like the USD, real property, businesses, commodities, etc. Their national currencies rapidly depreciates though, so it can only be used for short-term liqudity purposes. >>Wouldn't it make more sense to use fiat from elsewhere like EUR or USD? That's a good question. The only use-case I can see where cryptocurrencies are a better fit is when digital/international payments need to be made. Crypto allows that without any formal approval, from the state, for a USD/EUR supporting payments/e-wallet/banking firm to operate in that country.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    It could (in combination with Lightning) function as alternative to card payments in places where banking systems aren't functional. Also international waters. Also digital goods. However it won't be soon. It's financial infrastructure - just different from the ordinary. And that takes decades to build. Cards were accepted at only few establishments at first too.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      ERC20 stablecoins on zk-Rollups could function in that role. Lightning not so much.
marcosdumay 5y ago
Those people still overwhelmingly prefer dollars.