6 ms·

Regardless of whether this is anti-competitive enough to be illegal, I'm surprised that Microsoft are going anywhere near this issue given their history of lega

Regardless of whether this is anti-competitive enough to be illegal, I'm surprised that Microsoft are going anywhere near this issue given their history of legal trouble with giving preferential treatment to their own browser.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
My feeling is MS maybe have paid^W campaign-contributed to the right people on both sides of the Atlantic, that they're not worried about this.
- saint_angels 5y ago
  if so, what did change so it wasn't feasible before? Now MS has more money to pay?
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    I wonder if there's a survey that asks OECD citizens if they feel like in the last 20 years their country has: a) become less corrupt b) become more corrupt c) stayed the same
- jeltz 5y ago
  How would campaign contributions help in the EU? The people they would need to pay off are all unelected judges and prosecutors. The elected officials do not how much power to affect anything.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    I should've also added lobbying. Like Microsoft trying to stop Munich to switch to Linux: https://www.information-age.com/ballmer-lobbying-fails-to-prevent-linux-defection-297691/ https://www.information-age.com/ballmer-lobbying-fails-to-pr... Although that's from 2006, in 2013 this article says the migration was finished: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-ste... But I'm not sure if they've stayed with Linux or returned to Microsoft in the last 8 years... EDIT, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux#Timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux#Timeline, in 2017 some politicians said they're switching to Windows 10 by 2020, in 2020 other politicians U-turned on that decision.
AshamedCaptain 5y ago
What trouble? After all, all of their legal troubles amounted to a financial slap on the wrist and the browserchoice requeriment which they managed to actually profit from (auctions), then dropped entirely when they saw fit. By the time the government gets to slapping them again with another non-consequential fine, edge will have already managed to extract as much market share as they could with these techniques anyway. When are they going to split the company? Never.
- josefx 5y ago
  > the browserchoice requeriment Not sure if they profited but early on it was filled with dozens of trident(IE) skins and a broken random shuffle that put IE first most of the time. So they didn't loose anything with it.
  - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
    Despite the fact it was explicitly forbidden for them to show other browsers based on trident. They have basically done whatever the fsck they want, since forever.
    - joshuaissac 5y ago
      > Despite the fact it was explicitly forbidden for them to show other browsers based on trident. There was no ban on Trident browsers. There were no auctions, either. None of the reporting or sources from that time (or since then) support the existence of a ban or auction.
      - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
        > Microsoft is also not allowed to feature any browser "which is based on Internet Explorer's rendering engine and the development or distribution of which is funded in whole or in substantial part by Microsoft." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8545237.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8545237.stm I didn't find the full original MS agreement, but Google definitely did auctions in their equivalent EU agreement for search, so it's likely MS did the same. It was even featured here in HN not long ago, https://web.stanford.edu/~ost/papers/csa.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~ost/papers/csa.pdf .
isodev 5y ago
What trouble? Also for reference, Apple and Google both do the same for their operating systems - iOS, macOS, ChromeOS and many Android flavours. Edit: My point being, in this case it's an end-to-end experience, it's not a question of being able to configure anything. You get Windows with whatever Microsoft decides you can do with it. If that's not what you intended, then another vendor's defaults or an open operating system are a better choice.
- marcellus23 5y ago
  > Also for reference, Apple and Google both do the same for their operating systems - iOS, macOS, ChromeOS and many Android flavours. No, they don't. iOS, macOS, Android (not sure about ChromeOS) all allow you to set a default browser and then the OS sticks to that default. In macOS, if I do a google search from Spotlight, it opens in Firefox. Clicking a link inside Mail on iOS opens in my default browser.
hinkley 5y ago
Every time people bring up the 30 years of systematic abuse of the computing world engineered by Microsoft, there's a dogpile of people who say that was years ago and they've changed. They haven't changed. They can't change. If you're at Microsoft or working with Microsoft because you think they will? Run.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago

My feeling is MS maybe have paid^W campaign-contributed to the right people on both sides of the Atlantic, that they're not worried about this.

saint_angels 5y ago
if so, what did change so it wasn't feasible before? Now MS has more money to pay?
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  I wonder if there's a survey that asks OECD citizens if they feel like in the last 20 years their country has: a) become less corrupt b) become more corrupt c) stayed the same
jeltz 5y ago
How would campaign contributions help in the EU? The people they would need to pay off are all unelected judges and prosecutors. The elected officials do not how much power to affect anything.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  I should've also added lobbying. Like Microsoft trying to stop Munich to switch to Linux: https://www.information-age.com/ballmer-lobbying-fails-to-prevent-linux-defection-297691/ https://www.information-age.com/ballmer-lobbying-fails-to-pr... Although that's from 2006, in 2013 this article says the migration was finished: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-ste... But I'm not sure if they've stayed with Linux or returned to Microsoft in the last 8 years... EDIT, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux#Timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux#Timeline, in 2017 some politicians said they're switching to Windows 10 by 2020, in 2020 other politicians U-turned on that decision.

AshamedCaptain 5y ago

What trouble? After all, all of their legal troubles amounted to a financial slap on the wrist and the browserchoice requeriment which they managed to actually profit from (auctions), then dropped entirely when they saw fit. By the time the government gets to slapping them again with another non-consequential fine, edge will have already managed to extract as much market share as they could with these techniques anyway. When are they going to split the company? Never.

josefx 5y ago
> the browserchoice requeriment Not sure if they profited but early on it was filled with dozens of trident(IE) skins and a broken random shuffle that put IE first most of the time. So they didn't loose anything with it.
- AshamedCaptain 5y ago
  Despite the fact it was explicitly forbidden for them to show other browsers based on trident. They have basically done whatever the fsck they want, since forever.
  - joshuaissac 5y ago
    > Despite the fact it was explicitly forbidden for them to show other browsers based on trident. There was no ban on Trident browsers. There were no auctions, either. None of the reporting or sources from that time (or since then) support the existence of a ban or auction.
    - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
      > Microsoft is also not allowed to feature any browser "which is based on Internet Explorer's rendering engine and the development or distribution of which is funded in whole or in substantial part by Microsoft." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8545237.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8545237.stm I didn't find the full original MS agreement, but Google definitely did auctions in their equivalent EU agreement for search, so it's likely MS did the same. It was even featured here in HN not long ago, https://web.stanford.edu/~ost/papers/csa.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~ost/papers/csa.pdf .

isodev 5y ago

What trouble? Also for reference, Apple and Google both do the same for their operating systems - iOS, macOS, ChromeOS and many Android flavours. Edit: My point being, in this case it's an end-to-end experience, it's not a question of being able to configure anything. You get Windows with whatever Microsoft decides you can do with it. If that's not what you intended, then another vendor's defaults or an open operating system are a better choice.

marcellus23 5y ago
> Also for reference, Apple and Google both do the same for their operating systems - iOS, macOS, ChromeOS and many Android flavours. No, they don't. iOS, macOS, Android (not sure about ChromeOS) all allow you to set a default browser and then the OS sticks to that default. In macOS, if I do a google search from Spotlight, it opens in Firefox. Clicking a link inside Mail on iOS opens in my default browser.

hinkley 5y ago

Every time people bring up the 30 years of systematic abuse of the computing world engineered by Microsoft, there's a dogpile of people who say that was years ago and they've changed. They haven't changed. They can't change. If you're at Microsoft or working with Microsoft because you think they will? Run.