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I like this. If that’s the case, it proves the free market works. You don’t need regulations when corporations can strongarm one another.

by havkd 5y ago

sorokod 5y ago
Just like you don't need peace treaties between countries, they can just duke it out on the battlefield,
londons_explore 5y ago
Most users either have a MasterCard or have a visa, and the majority of people couldn't get the other without substantial hassle. It would normally involve switching to a new bank, which in the UK is less frequent than divorces. That gives visa a lot of lock in - and the competition is no longer MasterCard but instead openbanking API's.
agilob 5y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/04/27/apple-google-intel-adobe-escape-cheaply-from-the-engineers-class-action-suit/?sh=16ef1d8d4847 https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/04/27/apple-go... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/technology/google-facebook-ad-deal-antitrust.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/technology/google-faceboo...
worble 5y ago
Oh yeah, this is a real win for consumers now that a large proportion of them are locked out from using their credit cards on Amazon.
- 00deadbeef 5y ago
  They aren't locked out yet and presumably this is a tactic to get Visa to lower their fees.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  Consumers can also strongarm Amazon. If everyone using Visa credit cards stop buying on Amazon starting 19th January, Amazon will probably budge. But since everyone has a debit card Amazon must be betting that if they do stop accepting Visa credit cards then customers will just shrug and switch card because they really, really need that stuff now.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    You underestimate what proportion of people have $3.50 as their current account balance and need the 'credit' ability of a credit card...
- ralferoo 5y ago
  Presumably Amazon have some stats of how frequently each type of card is used on their platform, even if that's just aggregation done on the first 4 digits of the card number. They are probably well placed to determine how many customers use Visa with them versus Mastercard, or even have both and use both on the website. The subset who have only ever used Visa on Amazon may or may not have an alternative card they could use, but they will presumably have factored in the cost of potentially losing the sale entirely as a result of refusing Visa. With Visa so entrenched in UK finance, it's not going to be received by customers the same way as Amex being refused (let's face it, Amex is refused most places because the only people who use it do so because they are getting cashback which is paid for by the merchant having increased fees). Instead, Visa will be the card they've always used, so if Amazon stop accepting it, I think a lot of customers will just shop elsewhere instead.
GoblinSlayer 5y ago
Right, they strongarm each other, then collude and together strongarm the rest of the market.
amelius 5y ago
> If that’s the case, it proves the free market works. The free market has many problems. This isn't one.
pjc50 5y ago
This is not an improvement, it's basically saying you don't need to worry about Mothra because Godzilla will turn up to save us. Ignoring those who get trampled under the fighting behemoths.

I like this. If that’s the case, it proves the free market works. You don’t need regulations when corporations can strongarm one another.

by havkd 5y ago

I like this. If that’s the case, it proves the free market works. You don’t need regulations when corporations can strongarm one another.

sorokod 5y ago

Just like you don't need peace treaties between countries, they can just duke it out on the battlefield,

londons_explore 5y ago

Most users either have a MasterCard or have a visa, and the majority of people couldn't get the other without substantial hassle. It would normally involve switching to a new bank, which in the UK is less frequent than divorces. That gives visa a lot of lock in - and the competition is no longer MasterCard but instead openbanking API's.

agilob 5y ago

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/04/27/apple-google-intel-adobe-escape-cheaply-from-the-engineers-class-action-suit/?sh=16ef1d8d4847 https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/04/27/apple-go... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/technology/google-facebook-ad-deal-antitrust.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/technology/google-faceboo...

worble 5y ago

Oh yeah, this is a real win for consumers now that a large proportion of them are locked out from using their credit cards on Amazon.

00deadbeef 5y ago
They aren't locked out yet and presumably this is a tactic to get Visa to lower their fees.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
Consumers can also strongarm Amazon. If everyone using Visa credit cards stop buying on Amazon starting 19th January, Amazon will probably budge. But since everyone has a debit card Amazon must be betting that if they do stop accepting Visa credit cards then customers will just shrug and switch card because they really, really need that stuff now.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  You underestimate what proportion of people have $3.50 as their current account balance and need the 'credit' ability of a credit card...
ralferoo 5y ago
Presumably Amazon have some stats of how frequently each type of card is used on their platform, even if that's just aggregation done on the first 4 digits of the card number. They are probably well placed to determine how many customers use Visa with them versus Mastercard, or even have both and use both on the website. The subset who have only ever used Visa on Amazon may or may not have an alternative card they could use, but they will presumably have factored in the cost of potentially losing the sale entirely as a result of refusing Visa. With Visa so entrenched in UK finance, it's not going to be received by customers the same way as Amex being refused (let's face it, Amex is refused most places because the only people who use it do so because they are getting cashback which is paid for by the merchant having increased fees). Instead, Visa will be the card they've always used, so if Amazon stop accepting it, I think a lot of customers will just shop elsewhere instead.

GoblinSlayer 5y ago

Right, they strongarm each other, then collude and together strongarm the rest of the market.

amelius 5y ago

> If that’s the case, it proves the free market works. The free market has many problems. This isn't one.

pjc50 5y ago

This is not an improvement, it's basically saying you don't need to worry about Mothra because Godzilla will turn up to save us. Ignoring those who get trampled under the fighting behemoths.