5 ms·

To be fair, I just found out about this literally from the link at the top of this page, a couple of hours ago. Not exactly enough time to become an expert in s

by lhorie 5y ago

To be fair, I just found out about this literally from the link at the top of this page, a couple of hours ago. Not exactly enough time to become an expert in supply chain logistics in a province I don't even live in. I'm reading now that there's already some stress due to displacements from the Lytton fire earlier this year, and displacements from Abbotsford, Merritt, etc are not gonna help the situation. I'm still trying to piece together the wider scope of the incident and don't yet have a good sense of what the overall damage looks like (though it increasingly looks like it isn't merely "a few key bridges happened to have flooded, it'll be fine once the water recedes" and it's more like "there are several landslides blocking roads along the route to Calgary and we're gonna be scrambling to staff the clean up efforts in time for winter"). On the one hand, you just need enough room for a truck to pass through, dirt road carved by a tractor as it might be, in order to establish a supply line. On the other hand, given that some communities barely only ever had that in the first place, I imagine many might need to figure out plan B arrangements.

iainctduncan 5y ago
Look, it's not "roads blocked". We're not talking "move the dirt and it'll be ok". The roads are GONE. Bridges and huge sections of the most important highways are now rubble floating down rivers with nothing there anymore. This is in some of the most difficult terrain to rebuild in that you could have. People who know what they are talking about are saying we are short highways through the winter. Here's some chopper footage: https://twitter.com/RobinMonks/status/1460690606410194949 https://twitter.com/RobinMonks/status/1460690606410194949 City folks who think this was just some rain are nothing but evidence of how disconnected city people can become from the infrastructure on which they depend.
- lhorie 5y ago
  Oh wow, that's crazy. Thanks for sharing that.
- swader999 5y ago
  That section in the Twitter link can be fixed fast is what I'm thinking but then I remember that B.C. is heavily unionized and my optimism fades.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    How you managed to convert devastating footage of washed away bridges and roads into an attack on unionisation is something future historians are going to have to work very hard to explain.
    - swader999 5y ago
      If you lived there you'd understand. It's a common theme.
      - Kluny 5y ago
        A constant theme among people who like to overwork and underpay their employees, yes.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      It's just a chunk of freeway.
  - Kluny 5y ago
    That's one section of like ten equally important road links that are in equally bad shape. That one could be fixed fast, sure, if it was the ONLY problem we were dealing with right now.
    - swader999 5y ago
      I still think it's two weeks max before those routes are passable with temporary measures even with unions.
      - Kluny 5y ago
- tjr225 5y ago
  > City folks who think this was just some rain are nothing but evidence of how disconnected city people can become from the infrastructure on which they depend. This is a really funny angle. I would think the city people are keen on how internationally connected they are as a coastal port city. Vancouver also has international access to the US. Vancouver can get goods from Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, San Diego, Alaska, Mexico, China, etc. Highways to the East and North being out won’t change this whatsoever. Isn’t it the rural folks who live inland who are dependent on port cities and road infrastructure that goes over the passes going to be the most screwed? Which crops/goods are being shipped from central Canada to Vancouver during the winter months?
  - iainctduncan 5y ago
    Well, we have tons of folks in Van, where it basically snows a few times a year, who have never driven the roads through the rest of the province and have no clue how bad they can get in bad weather. And I'm sure every modern city has people who have never thought about how things get in their stores. As to your assertion that highway closures won't change other access, this is nonsense. Take away the highways and you suddenly have WAY more that needs to get in and out the other ways, so the ferries and shipping traffic gets blocked up. I don't understand how anyone can believe "we'll just go the other way" is going to work fine. We don't have extra shipping works, boats, port slots, etc just waiting for twice the load or anything.
    - tjr225 5y ago
      > I don't understand how anyone can believe "we'll just go the other way" is going to work fine. We don't have extra shipping works, boats, port slots, etc just waiting for twice the load or anything. This is _already_ the direction these goods are coming in from. These so called idiotic city folk are likely going to be just fine. They might not be able to go to Whistler or whatever to go snowboarding for a year,
      - iainctduncan 5y ago
        Hey don't listen to me, I only lived there for 35 years. But maybe listen to some professors of supply chain management instead: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bc-floods-rail-impact-1.6250554 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bc-floods-rail-impact-1.625... A large part of Vancouver's food comes from the Fraser Valley by truck -- through two municipalities that are now under water. The mayor of one of whom is already wondering whether farmers will be killing all their livestock. It's a fuck of a lot worse than a cancelled snowboarding trip.
- katbyte 5y ago
  City folk in Vancouver proper are not going to be majorly affected, jobs related to the ports may have less hours but the supply chains typically starts, not terminate here. I feel for the valley and interior thou. Those areas are most definitely going to feel this for a while.

by lhorie 5y ago

iainctduncan 5y ago

Look, it's not "roads blocked". We're not talking "move the dirt and it'll be ok". The roads are GONE. Bridges and huge sections of the most important highways are now rubble floating down rivers with nothing there anymore. This is in some of the most difficult terrain to rebuild in that you could have. People who know what they are talking about are saying we are short highways through the winter. Here's some chopper footage: https://twitter.com/RobinMonks/status/1460690606410194949 https://twitter.com/RobinMonks/status/1460690606410194949 City folks who think this was just some rain are nothing but evidence of how disconnected city people can become from the infrastructure on which they depend.

lhorie 5y ago
Oh wow, that's crazy. Thanks for sharing that.
swader999 5y ago
That section in the Twitter link can be fixed fast is what I'm thinking but then I remember that B.C. is heavily unionized and my optimism fades.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  How you managed to convert devastating footage of washed away bridges and roads into an attack on unionisation is something future historians are going to have to work very hard to explain.
  - swader999 5y ago
    If you lived there you'd understand. It's a common theme.
    - Kluny 5y ago
      A constant theme among people who like to overwork and underpay their employees, yes.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    It's just a chunk of freeway.
- Kluny 5y ago
  That's one section of like ten equally important road links that are in equally bad shape. That one could be fixed fast, sure, if it was the ONLY problem we were dealing with right now.
  - swader999 5y ago
    I still think it's two weeks max before those routes are passable with temporary measures even with unions.
    - Kluny 5y ago
tjr225 5y ago
> City folks who think this was just some rain are nothing but evidence of how disconnected city people can become from the infrastructure on which they depend. This is a really funny angle. I would think the city people are keen on how internationally connected they are as a coastal port city. Vancouver also has international access to the US. Vancouver can get goods from Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, San Diego, Alaska, Mexico, China, etc. Highways to the East and North being out won’t change this whatsoever. Isn’t it the rural folks who live inland who are dependent on port cities and road infrastructure that goes over the passes going to be the most screwed? Which crops/goods are being shipped from central Canada to Vancouver during the winter months?
- iainctduncan 5y ago
  Well, we have tons of folks in Van, where it basically snows a few times a year, who have never driven the roads through the rest of the province and have no clue how bad they can get in bad weather. And I'm sure every modern city has people who have never thought about how things get in their stores. As to your assertion that highway closures won't change other access, this is nonsense. Take away the highways and you suddenly have WAY more that needs to get in and out the other ways, so the ferries and shipping traffic gets blocked up. I don't understand how anyone can believe "we'll just go the other way" is going to work fine. We don't have extra shipping works, boats, port slots, etc just waiting for twice the load or anything.
  - tjr225 5y ago
    > I don't understand how anyone can believe "we'll just go the other way" is going to work fine. We don't have extra shipping works, boats, port slots, etc just waiting for twice the load or anything. This is _already_ the direction these goods are coming in from. These so called idiotic city folk are likely going to be just fine. They might not be able to go to Whistler or whatever to go snowboarding for a year,
    - iainctduncan 5y ago
      Hey don't listen to me, I only lived there for 35 years. But maybe listen to some professors of supply chain management instead: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bc-floods-rail-impact-1.6250554 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bc-floods-rail-impact-1.625... A large part of Vancouver's food comes from the Fraser Valley by truck -- through two municipalities that are now under water. The mayor of one of whom is already wondering whether farmers will be killing all their livestock. It's a fuck of a lot worse than a cancelled snowboarding trip.
katbyte 5y ago
City folk in Vancouver proper are not going to be majorly affected, jobs related to the ports may have less hours but the supply chains typically starts, not terminate here. I feel for the valley and interior thou. Those areas are most definitely going to feel this for a while.