7 ms·

Your title totally mis-characterizes your own post (which doesn't even mention Gates[edit:I guess it does]). I'm tired of the comparison between Jobs and Gates.

by dereg 15y ago

Your title totally mis-characterizes your own post (which doesn't even mention Gates[edit:I guess it does]). I'm tired of the comparison between Jobs and Gates. Can't you recognize the achievements of one without belittling the other in your flamebait title? Jobs: "We have to let go of a few things here. We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose."

araneae 15y ago
Indeed. Personally I respect Bill Gates a lot more. He basically spends all his time working on his charity nowadays; he really couldn't care less about the future of his company. Jobs is good for Apple, but I think Gates is better for the world.
- thematt 15y ago
  "he couldn't care less about the future of his company" is quite an overstatement. He is still the chairman of the board after all. Also, that company is what allows him to fund his charitable endeavors, so you bet he cares about it's future.
- Hari_Seldon 15y ago
  Steve Jobs is a Buddhist. Buddhists believe that charitable giving should be done anonymously. For all we know SJ could be giving a lot to charities and other worthy causes, but as a Buddhist he will keep this to himself.
  - nvictor 15y ago
    oh well, that doesn't mean Bill Gates is doing it wrong. i remember his talk at TED where he released mosquitoes in the audience. his goals are pretty clear, invite other people to care. sorry, but it doesn't work like that if you keep it to yourself. and i'm by no mean belittling buddhists or anything...
    - joezydeco 15y ago
      Gates is spending his wealth and remaining time rebuilding the karma he destroyed during his decades in the business. I don't think Jobs has the same task ahead of him. Perhaps he does.
      - krschultz 15y ago
        Wow, that has to be one of the most rediculous statements I have ever read in my life. What are Gates crimes? Screwing over some competitors? Is that really a big deal? It's not like he's Bernie Madoff. And I'll remind you that Foxconn's workers are jumping off of buildings to kill themselves after making Apple products all day, not Microsoft ones. I also don't think you are in any position to be telling us why Bill Gates is giving his money away. Maybe he just wants to give it away because it makes him feel good. Every wednesday night my girlfriend spends 6 hours working with people with disabilities. When she comes home, she is beaming. Helping other people is the most rewarding of activites in its own right, try it some time.
        gnaritas 15y ago
        > What are Gates crimes? Screwing over some competitors? Is that really a big deal? Yes, it is.
        joezydeco 15y ago
        > What are Gates crimes? Screwing over some competitors? Yup. Go read up what happened to Go Corporation. http://bit.ly/nsNkIY http://bit.ly/nsNkIY "The lawsuit also claims that Microsoft stole Go technology, that the company threatened Intel, which had invested in Go, and that it used "incentives and threats" to coerce Compaq, Fujitsu, Toshiba and other computer makers not to use Go's operating system."
        joezydeco 15y ago
        Oh and by the way, Schulz, I never said "crime". I said bad karma. You can do a lot of damage to the world and to other people without ever committing a crime.
  - araneae 15y ago
    Well there's a difference between giving money and running an organization. Using money intelligently is more important than just donating it.
yalimgerger 15y ago
The point I tried to make is that Steve Jobs touched people lives in a way no other can, sometimes at a very personal level and his only instrument was technology. Previously, this privilege used to belong to writers, poets, politicians.
- dereg 15y ago
  Flame-bait titles invariably leads to silly arguments about why ______ did more than _______. Both Gates and Jobs have done remarkable things from which many people benefited. We don't need to compare Gates or Jobs or give the impression that either one's success came at the failing of the other. By generating such a comparison, you've distracted your audience from the content of your post which, by the way, I enjoyed and related to. Why poison an otherwise positive post by inviting flame wars?
  - yalimgerger 15y ago
    I am sorry that this is how it is perceived. That was not my intention at all. A title is meant to be catchy. I made the comparison to Gates and the rest because even though they all changed my life, they did not touch me at a personal level like Jobs. This is all. Flame war was not my intention and I don't think the comments played out that way.
- trezor 15y ago
  Steve Jobs touched people lives in a way no other can, sometimes at a very personal level Can we please stop the Steve Jobs and Apple suck-up here on HN please? This is getting as embarrassing to read as it is getting sickening. I realize the Sanfran wannebe hipster-crowd here like their shiny iGadgets and want to reaffirm their own worth by appraising the company which they have attached their identity to, but this is getting a little bit out of hand and quite frankly, rather silly.
  - grammaton 15y ago
    Thank you. But you won't get far here. The groupthink on HN is far too strong.
yalimgerger 15y ago
The post mentions Gates by the way.
rbanffy 15y ago
> Can't you recognize the achievements of one without belittling the other in your flamebait title? Well... When you compare the achievements of both, Jobs' are bigger.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  Since people seem to disagree, let me list some: - he (with Woz) invented the personal computer as we know it (a plastic box with a keyboard) - he made the GUI available to mere mortals (he was the driver behind the Mac when Apple was committing itself to Lisa) - he made Unix easy to use (NeXT) - he invented viable commercial music downloads - he invented the desirable smartphone - he invented a computer my mom would love to use He is the driving force behind Apple's during its most fertile periods - I am quite sure nothing leaves the lab without his approval. What did Gates really invent?
  - dman 15y ago
    Steve Jobs invented the myth that a founder invents and oversees everything his company does.
    - dereg 15y ago
      I disagree. While he doesn't seem to mind the credit and attention that he's getting, he didn't "invent" that concept. Look at what he said in his 60 Minutes interview: “My model for business is The Beatles. They were four guys who kept each other’s negative tendencies in check. And the total was greater than the sum of the parts. Great things in business are not done by one person; they are done by a team of people.” He has always given credit to his team. I think it's the media that invented that myth.
  - bad_user 15y ago
    he (with Woz) invented the personal computer as we know it (a plastic box with a keyboard) No they didn't. IBM's first personal computer, IBM 5100 was introduced in 1975, one year earlier. Before that Xerox Alto was introduced in 1973, and while never commercially produced -- get this, it had a GUI, a mouse, an object oriented OS and an Ethernet card. And before that, the personal computers we know today were perfectly described in a book from 1949, called "Giant Brains, or Machines That Think", then later plans for building Simon were published: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/berkeley/simonfaq.html http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/berkeley/simonfaq.ht... And between 1950 and 1977, the year Apple II came along, there were many other good products released. he made the GUI available to mere mortals Making stuff available to mere mortals means making it a commodity. If I could afford a cheap and usable personal computer (in my country in 1994), it's because of Microsoft, not Apple. So we are in disagreement. he invented the desirable smartphone No, Blackberry did. What did Gates really invent? Neither invented anything really. It's just plain, gradual evolution with ideas originating at least 30 years back.
sjwright 15y ago
> Jobs: "We have to let go of a few things here. We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." The phrase has proven to be spectacularly accurate, but it's important to parse the words correctly. They have proven that Apple can win on their own merits and not by fighting Microsoft for desktop supremacy. In particular, the iPod, the iTunes Music Store, the iPhone and the iPad are where Apple "won" by creating new markets, and not -- arguably -- by stealing market share from Windows Mobile and Tablet products. Apple won, and Microsoft didn't have to lose.
- extension 15y ago
  Microsoft lost to the web. And the ubiquity of the web is what made the iPhone and iPad viable. So maybe Microsoft didn't have to lose, but they did, so I guess we'll never really know.
  - WayneDB 15y ago
    The vast majority of web users are Windows users. How has Microsoft lost?
    - danssig 15y ago
      Are you sure about that? Windows on mobile is less than a rounding error.
      - thematt 15y ago
        He's right -- the vast majority of web users are not mobile users. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
  - bad_user 15y ago
    In what sense has Microsoft lost? Sure, they lost their lock-in, but everything else is pretty much the same.

by dereg 15y ago

araneae 15y ago

Indeed. Personally I respect Bill Gates a lot more. He basically spends all his time working on his charity nowadays; he really couldn't care less about the future of his company. Jobs is good for Apple, but I think Gates is better for the world.

thematt 15y ago
"he couldn't care less about the future of his company" is quite an overstatement. He is still the chairman of the board after all. Also, that company is what allows him to fund his charitable endeavors, so you bet he cares about it's future.
Hari_Seldon 15y ago
Steve Jobs is a Buddhist. Buddhists believe that charitable giving should be done anonymously. For all we know SJ could be giving a lot to charities and other worthy causes, but as a Buddhist he will keep this to himself.
- nvictor 15y ago
  oh well, that doesn't mean Bill Gates is doing it wrong. i remember his talk at TED where he released mosquitoes in the audience. his goals are pretty clear, invite other people to care. sorry, but it doesn't work like that if you keep it to yourself. and i'm by no mean belittling buddhists or anything...
  - joezydeco 15y ago
    Gates is spending his wealth and remaining time rebuilding the karma he destroyed during his decades in the business. I don't think Jobs has the same task ahead of him. Perhaps he does.
    - krschultz 15y ago
      Wow, that has to be one of the most rediculous statements I have ever read in my life. What are Gates crimes? Screwing over some competitors? Is that really a big deal? It's not like he's Bernie Madoff. And I'll remind you that Foxconn's workers are jumping off of buildings to kill themselves after making Apple products all day, not Microsoft ones. I also don't think you are in any position to be telling us why Bill Gates is giving his money away. Maybe he just wants to give it away because it makes him feel good. Every wednesday night my girlfriend spends 6 hours working with people with disabilities. When she comes home, she is beaming. Helping other people is the most rewarding of activites in its own right, try it some time.
      - gnaritas 15y ago
        > What are Gates crimes? Screwing over some competitors? Is that really a big deal? Yes, it is.
      - joezydeco 15y ago
        > What are Gates crimes? Screwing over some competitors? Yup. Go read up what happened to Go Corporation. http://bit.ly/nsNkIY http://bit.ly/nsNkIY "The lawsuit also claims that Microsoft stole Go technology, that the company threatened Intel, which had invested in Go, and that it used "incentives and threats" to coerce Compaq, Fujitsu, Toshiba and other computer makers not to use Go's operating system."
        joezydeco 15y ago
        Oh and by the way, Schulz, I never said "crime". I said bad karma. You can do a lot of damage to the world and to other people without ever committing a crime.
- araneae 15y ago
  Well there's a difference between giving money and running an organization. Using money intelligently is more important than just donating it.

yalimgerger 15y ago

The point I tried to make is that Steve Jobs touched people lives in a way no other can, sometimes at a very personal level and his only instrument was technology. Previously, this privilege used to belong to writers, poets, politicians.

dereg 15y ago
Flame-bait titles invariably leads to silly arguments about why ______ did more than _______. Both Gates and Jobs have done remarkable things from which many people benefited. We don't need to compare Gates or Jobs or give the impression that either one's success came at the failing of the other. By generating such a comparison, you've distracted your audience from the content of your post which, by the way, I enjoyed and related to. Why poison an otherwise positive post by inviting flame wars?
- yalimgerger 15y ago
  I am sorry that this is how it is perceived. That was not my intention at all. A title is meant to be catchy. I made the comparison to Gates and the rest because even though they all changed my life, they did not touch me at a personal level like Jobs. This is all. Flame war was not my intention and I don't think the comments played out that way.
trezor 15y ago
Steve Jobs touched people lives in a way no other can, sometimes at a very personal level Can we please stop the Steve Jobs and Apple suck-up here on HN please? This is getting as embarrassing to read as it is getting sickening. I realize the Sanfran wannebe hipster-crowd here like their shiny iGadgets and want to reaffirm their own worth by appraising the company which they have attached their identity to, but this is getting a little bit out of hand and quite frankly, rather silly.
- grammaton 15y ago
  Thank you. But you won't get far here. The groupthink on HN is far too strong.

yalimgerger 15y ago

The post mentions Gates by the way.

rbanffy 15y ago

> Can't you recognize the achievements of one without belittling the other in your flamebait title? Well... When you compare the achievements of both, Jobs' are bigger.

rbanffy 15y ago
Since people seem to disagree, let me list some: - he (with Woz) invented the personal computer as we know it (a plastic box with a keyboard) - he made the GUI available to mere mortals (he was the driver behind the Mac when Apple was committing itself to Lisa) - he made Unix easy to use (NeXT) - he invented viable commercial music downloads - he invented the desirable smartphone - he invented a computer my mom would love to use He is the driving force behind Apple's during its most fertile periods - I am quite sure nothing leaves the lab without his approval. What did Gates really invent?
- dman 15y ago
  Steve Jobs invented the myth that a founder invents and oversees everything his company does.
  - dereg 15y ago
    I disagree. While he doesn't seem to mind the credit and attention that he's getting, he didn't "invent" that concept. Look at what he said in his 60 Minutes interview: “My model for business is The Beatles. They were four guys who kept each other’s negative tendencies in check. And the total was greater than the sum of the parts. Great things in business are not done by one person; they are done by a team of people.” He has always given credit to his team. I think it's the media that invented that myth.
- bad_user 15y ago
  he (with Woz) invented the personal computer as we know it (a plastic box with a keyboard) No they didn't. IBM's first personal computer, IBM 5100 was introduced in 1975, one year earlier. Before that Xerox Alto was introduced in 1973, and while never commercially produced -- get this, it had a GUI, a mouse, an object oriented OS and an Ethernet card. And before that, the personal computers we know today were perfectly described in a book from 1949, called "Giant Brains, or Machines That Think", then later plans for building Simon were published: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/berkeley/simonfaq.html http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/berkeley/simonfaq.ht... And between 1950 and 1977, the year Apple II came along, there were many other good products released. he made the GUI available to mere mortals Making stuff available to mere mortals means making it a commodity. If I could afford a cheap and usable personal computer (in my country in 1994), it's because of Microsoft, not Apple. So we are in disagreement. he invented the desirable smartphone No, Blackberry did. What did Gates really invent? Neither invented anything really. It's just plain, gradual evolution with ideas originating at least 30 years back.

sjwright 15y ago

> Jobs: "We have to let go of a few things here. We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." The phrase has proven to be spectacularly accurate, but it's important to parse the words correctly. They have proven that Apple can win on their own merits and not by fighting Microsoft for desktop supremacy. In particular, the iPod, the iTunes Music Store, the iPhone and the iPad are where Apple "won" by creating new markets, and not -- arguably -- by stealing market share from Windows Mobile and Tablet products. Apple won, and Microsoft didn't have to lose.

extension 15y ago
Microsoft lost to the web. And the ubiquity of the web is what made the iPhone and iPad viable. So maybe Microsoft didn't have to lose, but they did, so I guess we'll never really know.
- WayneDB 15y ago
  The vast majority of web users are Windows users. How has Microsoft lost?
  - danssig 15y ago
    Are you sure about that? Windows on mobile is less than a rounding error.
    - thematt 15y ago
      He's right -- the vast majority of web users are not mobile users. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
- bad_user 15y ago
  In what sense has Microsoft lost? Sure, they lost their lock-in, but everything else is pretty much the same.