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I can say with great confidence - do not get married. Do not live in a common law state. You will very likely regret it immensely. If I had been legally marrie

I can say with great confidence - do not get married. Do not live in a common law state. You will very likely regret it immensely. If I had been legally married to my ex - I would’ve been raked over the coals. I could see myself being the man on that rig. She contributed nothing to our relationship (financially or emotionally) and I put her through college while she didn’t work or pay for anything. Yet, even if I showed such selflessness, she would’ve gone to court to get half my savings I slaved over and then demand alimony for all eternity. Only because she knew she could. I think once you give people power - they will use it as much as they possibly can even if it is completely unjust. Power corrupts… The legal and cultural institution of marriage is ridiculous. Don’t do it! And definitely don’t be with someone who doesn’t work or is a project. It’s miserable (because they become entitled and lack gratefulness). It has left me feeling quite scared even if I didn’t go through the toughest parts. I’m overall feeling unable to trust women romantically. After it - I really feel like I’m taking off the rose colored glasses and seeing how poorly I’ve been treated by so many. I’ve stopped feeling like I’m the problem - after all, no one ever said I was. I’ve been the harshest critic of myself. Anyway - don’t get a project car for a partner. They don’t deserve you.

Iefthandrule 5y ago
Wouldn't it make sense then to marry someone with a similar socioeconomic status? Or if divorce is skewed against men, only pursue women who make more than you? Marriage as legal entity was created as a result of women being more or less their father's property.
Tras884 5y ago
Women initiate divorce 70% of the time. For college educated women this rate is 90%.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  That is an amazing statistic…
  - oceanghost 5y ago
    It's almost all upside for women. The financials are tilted entirely in their direction.
throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
Upvoted. Writing this here as I would give the same advice.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Tras884 5y ago
Upvoted, unfortunately it happened to me. I out-earned my spouse by 4x and lost everything when she decided she wasn't happy. Do not expect any gratitude : You have no idea who your ex-wife until you meet her in family court. My ex wife took half of our (my) assets (including my 401k). The lawyers took what was left as I was fighting to prevent her from moving away 3'000 miles with our kids (I had to pay for both her and my lawyer) In the end my ex wife won her move away. I lost my kids and I am now stuck paying more than half my salary in child support + child support add-ons such as private school, nannies, healthcare. The remaining of my salary is spent on travel across the country once a month to be able to see my kids. It is a very risk bet... you don't have much to win and a lot to loose if you are a men (custody) and the higher earner.
- throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
  Upvoting everything you have said. Feeling sorry for you too.
- throwawaymariag 5y ago
  I helped mine move to this country and find an occupation that was earning $130k and growing multiple digits% every year. Then she must have heard about California divorces... Rather than staying in our unhappy marriage (arguably not anyone's particular fault) because she thought she had to, she filed, got half of everything, even stuff that was arguably more mine that hers. I'd always been a marriage skeptic... When we moved to the US we got married, because that's how we could continue our relationship. I thought I was smart when I insisted to sign a pre-nup in our country of origin. I didn't suspect California would not see the pre-nup that way - Why would I be more careful then and research it in more details?: We were in love then. The news that the prenup would be contested was the first bitter news. (California doesn't yet have a case that went in front of a judge about that country's prenup validity). When we settled, she cashed in, and immediately after, announced to me, that in fact, she was unhappy here, and that she was going back to our country of origin (2nd bitter news). I get to keep the kids (thank god) here with me. But she has long stopped working and I'll support her early retirement with monthly payments that are huge money where she is going. Why would she even work there? She has until the kids get 18 to figure the plan for after, and the assets she has from the settlement, if invested right, will cover even that (+ she has a new fiancee anyway). Yes marriage is antiquated -- I had a "modern" marriage where I was super involved (cooking, taking care of the house and the kids), and a traditional "fuck you" divorce.
deleted 5y ago
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BirdieNZ 5y ago
I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable. Yes, marriage opens yourself up to a great deal of potential financial damage. It also opens yourself up to a secure romance and friendship, where you can build a future based on commitment to one another. I far prefer to give my wife not just my love and companionship, but also my commitment, my future, and yes, my money. She does the same for me, and it is far more secure and stable than just a dating relationship which could end at any time for any reason. Divorce is way harder to go through than a simple breakup, for either party. Just the sheer effort of a divorce gives you stability, regardless of social, legal, and cultural implications.
- williamtrask 5y ago
  Beautifully said and couldn’t agree more. There’s also plenty of empirical evidence for marriage’s positive impacts on kids not to mention the general principle that two are stronger than one. It’s an institution that’s thousands of years old and stretches across every society and religion for good reason. Sadly not all marriages are successful (not unlike a startup). But this doesn’t mean they’re not worth pursuing.
  - throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
    I overall agree to what you have said. Marriage has positive impacts on children, and that's why love itself evolved. However, "marriage" as it stands today from a social and legal standpoints comes with a lots of side things that should not be. Times have changed in the thousands of years, however, the system is not being adapted with these changes. The challenges that would have been when the concept of marriage developed (which predates written history) are not the same as the challenges today. I am not against marriage in itself, however, what it means all taken together is in need of adjustment. And that will happen sooner or later. The positive impacts on children can continue as the system is refined. The only question is how many suffer during the transition phase.
62951413 5y ago
This forum is full of [potential] immigrants so a little warning for all of you laughing at American men. It can happen to you even if you got married abroad and so on completely different terms. In CA she can take not just half of your money but half of your money forever. EVEN IF YOUR WERE CAREFUL ENOUGH NOT TO IMPREGNATE HER!!! Your only defence will be to go back to the old country. So think twice about providing her with H-4. Also, there will be no shelter to run to. No safe space provided by the government, no newspapers complaining about domestic violence against you or political campaigns for your rights. You'll be on your own. And don't expect to recover from it. It will scar you for life. You'll probably reach a new low plateau in a few years but you former self or productivity will be gone for good.
drdude 5y ago
upvoted, happened to me, and I had two kids from her. The moment she knew she could do it, she used ALL the power the laws gave her, and until today I am harassed by her. Not worth it, never again. Marriage is the biggest scam we were miss-educated about.
oceanghost 5y ago
You literally just described my first marriage. Put wife through school, bought her a car while we were engaged (hers blew up). She didn't work for our entire marriage save but for the last year. She had this weird plan to "take all the money and leave me with all the debt" which she proudly told my brother. Her plan was to run up our credit cards with daily expenses then take off with all the money in the bank accounts. Of course, that's not how divorce works. The only thing that partially saved me was, she was too arrogant+cheap+stupid to get a lawyer who would have told her who things actually work. I don't want to be married to her, but I often wonder what would have happened if she had understood how divorce works. I'm currently preparing a court action because she won't let me see our daughter-- despite me having taken care of her the entirety of covid.
- abdabab 5y ago
  > She had this weird plan to "take all the money and leave me with all the debt" which she proudly told my brother. This sounds like a nightmare.
  - oceanghost 5y ago
    It was/is. Picking the wrong partner can ruin your life.
gremloni 5y ago
Just get a prenup.
gremloni 5y ago
I funnel all my money into crypto and then into cash in another country. Good luck finding that.
- ameminator 5y ago
  You know, it's best not to leave evidence of or admit to a crime. However, I am not a lawyer...
speleding 5y ago
What if you meet a woman who makes approximately the same (or more) to take the financial risk off the table. Would that change your mind? Choosing someone with comparable earning power might lead to a more interesting partner anyway
bananamerica 5y ago
Hey, I'm a project. That hurts. My wife makes a lot of money, a lot more than I do. Guess I have the upper hand, then? :/
agumonkey 5y ago
Are you from the US ? I hear so many (soooo many) US men saying the same exact thing. Half of Bill Burr fame comes from marriage stories. Is it the same in every country ? relationship often bring their own madness but the US seem to have their very own kind. ps: i'm not criticizing anybody btw, and oh I forgot, I saw people giving a lot and receiving nothing back, so I kinda get a bit of your story. It's just the habit of "give me half your money. bye." that gets to me.

Iefthandrule 5y ago

Wouldn't it make sense then to marry someone with a similar socioeconomic status? Or if divorce is skewed against men, only pursue women who make more than you? Marriage as legal entity was created as a result of women being more or less their father's property.

Tras884 5y ago

Women initiate divorce 70% of the time. For college educated women this rate is 90%.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
That is an amazing statistic…
- oceanghost 5y ago
  It's almost all upside for women. The financials are tilted entirely in their direction.

throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago

Upvoted. Writing this here as I would give the same advice.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Tras884 5y ago

Upvoted, unfortunately it happened to me. I out-earned my spouse by 4x and lost everything when she decided she wasn't happy. Do not expect any gratitude : You have no idea who your ex-wife until you meet her in family court. My ex wife took half of our (my) assets (including my 401k). The lawyers took what was left as I was fighting to prevent her from moving away 3'000 miles with our kids (I had to pay for both her and my lawyer) In the end my ex wife won her move away. I lost my kids and I am now stuck paying more than half my salary in child support + child support add-ons such as private school, nannies, healthcare. The remaining of my salary is spent on travel across the country once a month to be able to see my kids. It is a very risk bet... you don't have much to win and a lot to loose if you are a men (custody) and the higher earner.

throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
Upvoting everything you have said. Feeling sorry for you too.
throwawaymariag 5y ago
I helped mine move to this country and find an occupation that was earning $130k and growing multiple digits% every year. Then she must have heard about California divorces... Rather than staying in our unhappy marriage (arguably not anyone's particular fault) because she thought she had to, she filed, got half of everything, even stuff that was arguably more mine that hers. I'd always been a marriage skeptic... When we moved to the US we got married, because that's how we could continue our relationship. I thought I was smart when I insisted to sign a pre-nup in our country of origin. I didn't suspect California would not see the pre-nup that way - Why would I be more careful then and research it in more details?: We were in love then. The news that the prenup would be contested was the first bitter news. (California doesn't yet have a case that went in front of a judge about that country's prenup validity). When we settled, she cashed in, and immediately after, announced to me, that in fact, she was unhappy here, and that she was going back to our country of origin (2nd bitter news). I get to keep the kids (thank god) here with me. But she has long stopped working and I'll support her early retirement with monthly payments that are huge money where she is going. Why would she even work there? She has until the kids get 18 to figure the plan for after, and the assets she has from the settlement, if invested right, will cover even that (+ she has a new fiancee anyway). Yes marriage is antiquated -- I had a "modern" marriage where I was super involved (cooking, taking care of the house and the kids), and a traditional "fuck you" divorce.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

BirdieNZ 5y ago

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable. Yes, marriage opens yourself up to a great deal of potential financial damage. It also opens yourself up to a secure romance and friendship, where you can build a future based on commitment to one another. I far prefer to give my wife not just my love and companionship, but also my commitment, my future, and yes, my money. She does the same for me, and it is far more secure and stable than just a dating relationship which could end at any time for any reason. Divorce is way harder to go through than a simple breakup, for either party. Just the sheer effort of a divorce gives you stability, regardless of social, legal, and cultural implications.

williamtrask 5y ago
Beautifully said and couldn’t agree more. There’s also plenty of empirical evidence for marriage’s positive impacts on kids not to mention the general principle that two are stronger than one. It’s an institution that’s thousands of years old and stretches across every society and religion for good reason. Sadly not all marriages are successful (not unlike a startup). But this doesn’t mean they’re not worth pursuing.
- throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
  I overall agree to what you have said. Marriage has positive impacts on children, and that's why love itself evolved. However, "marriage" as it stands today from a social and legal standpoints comes with a lots of side things that should not be. Times have changed in the thousands of years, however, the system is not being adapted with these changes. The challenges that would have been when the concept of marriage developed (which predates written history) are not the same as the challenges today. I am not against marriage in itself, however, what it means all taken together is in need of adjustment. And that will happen sooner or later. The positive impacts on children can continue as the system is refined. The only question is how many suffer during the transition phase.

62951413 5y ago

This forum is full of [potential] immigrants so a little warning for all of you laughing at American men. It can happen to you even if you got married abroad and so on completely different terms. In CA she can take not just half of your money but half of your money forever. EVEN IF YOUR WERE CAREFUL ENOUGH NOT TO IMPREGNATE HER!!! Your only defence will be to go back to the old country. So think twice about providing her with H-4. Also, there will be no shelter to run to. No safe space provided by the government, no newspapers complaining about domestic violence against you or political campaigns for your rights. You'll be on your own. And don't expect to recover from it. It will scar you for life. You'll probably reach a new low plateau in a few years but you former self or productivity will be gone for good.

drdude 5y ago

upvoted, happened to me, and I had two kids from her. The moment she knew she could do it, she used ALL the power the laws gave her, and until today I am harassed by her. Not worth it, never again. Marriage is the biggest scam we were miss-educated about.

oceanghost 5y ago

You literally just described my first marriage. Put wife through school, bought her a car while we were engaged (hers blew up). She didn't work for our entire marriage save but for the last year. She had this weird plan to "take all the money and leave me with all the debt" which she proudly told my brother. Her plan was to run up our credit cards with daily expenses then take off with all the money in the bank accounts. Of course, that's not how divorce works. The only thing that partially saved me was, she was too arrogant+cheap+stupid to get a lawyer who would have told her who things actually work. I don't want to be married to her, but I often wonder what would have happened if she had understood how divorce works. I'm currently preparing a court action because she won't let me see our daughter-- despite me having taken care of her the entirety of covid.

abdabab 5y ago
> She had this weird plan to "take all the money and leave me with all the debt" which she proudly told my brother. This sounds like a nightmare.
- oceanghost 5y ago
  It was/is. Picking the wrong partner can ruin your life.

gremloni 5y ago

Just get a prenup.

gremloni 5y ago

I funnel all my money into crypto and then into cash in another country. Good luck finding that.

ameminator 5y ago
You know, it's best not to leave evidence of or admit to a crime. However, I am not a lawyer...

speleding 5y ago

What if you meet a woman who makes approximately the same (or more) to take the financial risk off the table. Would that change your mind? Choosing someone with comparable earning power might lead to a more interesting partner anyway

bananamerica 5y ago

Hey, I'm a project. That hurts. My wife makes a lot of money, a lot more than I do. Guess I have the upper hand, then? :/

agumonkey 5y ago

Are you from the US ? I hear so many (soooo many) US men saying the same exact thing. Half of Bill Burr fame comes from marriage stories. Is it the same in every country ? relationship often bring their own madness but the US seem to have their very own kind. ps: i'm not criticizing anybody btw, and oh I forgot, I saw people giving a lot and receiving nothing back, so I kinda get a bit of your story. It's just the habit of "give me half your money. bye." that gets to me.