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If you use gargantuan Java frameworks, you'll use a lot of RAM. Just don't do that. With Spring Boot and similar frameworks, the RAM usage is really just very m

If you use gargantuan Java frameworks, you'll use a lot of RAM. Just don't do that. With Spring Boot and similar frameworks, the RAM usage is really just very modest. I'll give you startup times, since I am not a believer in Quarkus and Graal. And I wouldn't use Java for a serverless function that needs to spin up and respond quickly. But for a typical (blue/green-deployed) application in my world, startup time is still only a few seconds, which is fine for many applications. And I am not settling for "fine", just saying that the startup time isn't a big consideration, against a lot of things the Java (or Spring, in my case) ecosystem offers me.

vips7L 5y ago
Startup time is fine.. just don't use spring where it has to read every class at runtime to determine what to inject.
- geodel 5y ago
  Well that's the Spring's great feature: To convert as many compile time errors in to runtime errors as possible.
  - jpgvm 5y ago
    To be fair there is the new Kotlin based wiring API which avoids that with the caveat you need to instantiate everything manually etc. Which is probably a decent tradeoff for some folks.
    - vips7L 5y ago
      There’s other alternatives like Avaje Inject and Quarkus which uses the same annotations but does the injection generation at compile time.
nogridbag 5y ago
Care to share more thoughts on Quarkus? I'm evaluating it for an upcoming app. From my limited reading it can be used with and without Graal.
- sverhagen 5y ago
  See my sibling comment: my fears are irrational.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  My favourite bit of Quarkus is the same as my favourite bit of Micronaut - DI is compile time.
kitd 5y ago
I had a Quarkus server app start up in 0.1s the other week. And BTW Spring Boot does native compilation now too [1] Your "belief" is putting you at risk of ignoring a wide range of Java use cases unnecessarily. [1] https://docs.spring.io/spring-native/docs/current/reference/htmlsingle/ https://docs.spring.io/spring-native/docs/current/reference/...
- sverhagen 5y ago
  You are probably right. It's one of those things where I've not seen a need to jump aboard. I'm still being fearful of reflection going to break on me. Probably irrational fear, but fed by me not understanding how it wouldn't break. Which I should study up on. Which I don't, since I don't have the need. And here I am ... vicious circle.

vips7L 5y ago

Startup time is fine.. just don't use spring where it has to read every class at runtime to determine what to inject.

geodel 5y ago
Well that's the Spring's great feature: To convert as many compile time errors in to runtime errors as possible.
- jpgvm 5y ago
  To be fair there is the new Kotlin based wiring API which avoids that with the caveat you need to instantiate everything manually etc. Which is probably a decent tradeoff for some folks.
  - vips7L 5y ago
    There’s other alternatives like Avaje Inject and Quarkus which uses the same annotations but does the injection generation at compile time.

nogridbag 5y ago

Care to share more thoughts on Quarkus? I'm evaluating it for an upcoming app. From my limited reading it can be used with and without Graal.

sverhagen 5y ago
See my sibling comment: my fears are irrational.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
My favourite bit of Quarkus is the same as my favourite bit of Micronaut - DI is compile time.

kitd 5y ago

I had a Quarkus server app start up in 0.1s the other week. And BTW Spring Boot does native compilation now too [1] Your "belief" is putting you at risk of ignoring a wide range of Java use cases unnecessarily. [1] https://docs.spring.io/spring-native/docs/current/reference/htmlsingle/ https://docs.spring.io/spring-native/docs/current/reference/...

sverhagen 5y ago
You are probably right. It's one of those things where I've not seen a need to jump aboard. I'm still being fearful of reflection going to break on me. Probably irrational fear, but fed by me not understanding how it wouldn't break. Which I should study up on. Which I don't, since I don't have the need. And here I am ... vicious circle.